Lift options

[WoodLot]

I installed mine last night and the brake lines looked good with no mod. I left all other leafs in the pack and just added mine where it fit and had no issues with anything. Haven’t gotten the chance to flex my suspension or test it yet tho.

What height change did you see with the added leaf, and did I read your post correctly that you added the leaf additionally to the pack without removing one?

 

[Calebp]

What height change did you see with the added leaf, and did I read your post correctly that you added the leaf additionally to the pack without removing one?

I gained 2 1/4” for now without driving it to settle it yet. And yes you did, I decided to just try it and see if it worked in hopes of maybe gaining a little extra lift. All the factory bolts were long enough too.

 

[WoodLot]

I gained 2 1/4” for now without driving it to settle it yet. And yes you did, I decided to just try it and see if it worked in hopes of maybe gaining a little extra lift. All the factory bolts were long enough too.

Thank you Calebp. I too am looking into this route to gain a level Roxor stance. Let us know what you end up with on your shock arrangement, remaining with stock or going with a longer.

 

[Haerterich]

Tha add a leaf does not require longer brake lines, this is due to the stock shocks having a max extended length of 20 1/2 inch. with the add a leaf you ride height at the shock mounting points will increase to around 18 1/2 inch from 16 1/2. So you will only have about two inch travel down. Now if you decide to install longer shocks, I did last night they extend to 22 1/2 inch, the brake lines will be to short.

I have been working on a DIY lift using existing aftermarket parts. I now have 3 1/2 lift in front, and 1 inch in rear. It sits perfectly flat. I need help figuring out the brake lines. They do not look anything like normal jeep lines, starting to work on this now. The brake lines and front bump stops are all i have left. I am around $600 for everything, $280 of that was the Blistein shocks. Once i get the brake lines and bump stops i will post what i have done and what parts i used. So if anyone knows of a substitute brake line please let me know.

 

[Haerterich]

Forgot, early in the post i wrote the Roxor shackles were 3 inch eye to eye. This is wrong, i took them off to get accurate measurements. Front is 2 3/4 inch, rear is 3 1/4.

Now i will add this, shackle lifts have two negatives:
A) your approach angle and descend angle will decrease. Taller tires will help this.
B) you will through your pinion angles and caster angle way off. This problem can be fixed with some measuring then installing the correct degree shims to your leaf springs.

 

[Fastcat]

Mr Haerterich got any pictures and part sources Thanks Rick

 

[Haerterich]

Tomorrow I will try to post a few pictures of what i have done, not sure i know to, but i have kept track of all parts, with part numbers, and a few modes that had to be done to them. I have been planing to post this info but wanted to wait until i had them all installed and checked geometry. Well to day i was able to finish, except brake lines, and did some test drives. Last night we got about 7 inch s of snow, so i took it out in the fields, and down the roads. At 60 mph in 4x4 it road and handled better than stock. In the fields i was able to go through snow driffs well over the bumper and it never stopped. The last good snow we had i was stuck several times in similar conditions. I happy with the results. I will try to write up some info Sunday night.

 

[Haerterich]

 

[Haerterich]

I don't like computers don't understand how to post pictures and comets.

OK, I have lifted my Roxor about 3 1/2 inch front and 1 inch in the rear. Almost all parts used are easily available to all. There is some fabrication to the shackle kit, drill out holes in degree shims, and i made the 1/2" spacer for trans mount. So i started with installing the "add a leaf" this brought the front up about 2 inches. Then i installed the shackle lift, i am not a fan of these because to many people do this but don't address the problem they make with the pinion angles and caster angle. However i have installed the appropriate leaf spring degree shims to correct the angles. Everyone needs to understand that with the type of drive shafts we have the pinions need to be on the same plane. What this means is if the rear out put shaft of the TC (transfer case) is at an -6 degree angle from horizontal the rear pinion should be at a 6 degree angle, that is on the same plane. The rear pinion will need to as close to perfect as it can but if needed you can go up to 1 1/2 degrees lower, never go higher, that would be 4 1/2 in this example. Now in this example the front output shaft will be at 6 degree. So the front pinion would need to be at a -6 degree angle. The problem with the front axle is we also need to look at the caster angle, i have not been able to find the spec. for are ROXORS. But i do know the the Jeep CJ's and YJ's run best around 6 to 9 degrees of caster. For those who don't know more caster gives the steering wheel a "heavier feel" and the tires will center faster, i normally try to keed this angle around 7 or less degrees for leaf spring jeeps. After installing the shackles i was happy with the height, it is about .1 degrees from level. Now i checked the pinion angles, i use a digital lever about 1 foot long. On our roxors it is easy to do these measurements. If you look at the back of the TC you will see the round cover where you can install a PTO or overdrive this surface is machined at 90 degrees from the TC output shafts. So I put level across the cover and yes it is -6 degrees so i zeroed level. Now on the back of the rear diff i set the level against the two cover bolts on right side of cover, +9 degrees. Went to front diff and use the two bolts on left side of cover +4.5 degrees and caster is maybe +.7 degrees. You can measure your caster by placing a socket on top ball joint, big enough to not touch the ball joint stud but sit on the nut. The axle has about a 5.5 degree caster if you set the pinion to perfect level. So to be perfect the rear pinion needs to go down 3 degrees, and the front needs to go down 10.5 degrees. This will not work, degree shims don't go higher than 8 degrees and the caster will be to much. Front pinion and caster angle fight each other, but on the front axle the pinion angle is not as important as the rear and can be fudged
by a few degrees, up only. I normally allow 2 degrees up but you can go higher, the rear always has torque on it but the front does not. So i installed a 4 degree shim in the rear, now the pinion is 1 degree lower than TC shaft, thats great. I installed a 8 degree shim in the front, now the pinion angle is about -3.5 degrees and caster is +9 degrees, more than i want but it does drive well. Because i wanted to get my front pinion angle better i decided to raise the TC by installing a 1/2 inch spacer between the TC and mount, the one on the cross member. When i did this i also made a 1/4 plate for the second mount on right side of the TC, here you could use fender washers. This raised the TC 1 degree, now my rear pinion was dam near perfect and the front is high by 1.5 degrees. This is great and allows me to change the front to a 6 degree shim and get my caster where i want it. One other thing i liked about raising the TC is the shifter now has more clearance to the E-brake lever. My son has a Roxor as well and we will be doing this lift to his next weekend, we are using the 6 degree shim in his so we can compare the two different angles. Ok so now i am happy with the lift height and angles. The sway bar links work very well they allow adjustment of height, sway bar should be level. I also replaced all four shocks, stock ones are cheap. With the added height the front shocks are not long enough, max extended length is 20 1/2 inch, ride height about 19 inch, need new front shock. The shock i choise has a max extended length of 22 1/2 inch and mounts with the main body up, rod and boot down, so there is no clearance issues. The stock rear shocks don't need to be replaced but i did anyway. So if you want to do this lift you do not need the rear shocks, and if you don't do the TC raise i would recommend staying with the 8 degree shin in the front. With the increase length of the front shocks brake lines are now to short and will need to get longer ones. I will be removing mine tomorrow so i can figure out how we can install longer ones with easy to get parts.


PARTS USED

Pro Comp "add a leaf" #13120 $35

RT Offroad shackle kit #RT21023 $60

Rough Country sway bar links #1186 $60

Blistein 46mm shocks
Front #33-230443 $135
Rear #33-230313 $135

Rubicon Express degree shims
4 degree #RE1467 $34
6 degree #RE1486 $35
8 degree #RE1496 $40

 

[Haerterich]

I forgot about axle U-bolts. We have three different size U-bolts on are Roxors. Rear axle all four are 1/2-20x2 3/4x6, up front we have two different sizes the one right next to the diff is an odd duck but will work it is long enough for the added degree shin. The other three are 1/2-20x 2 3/4x5 3/4 i was not sure they would be long enough. We have an odd size axle tube outside diameter, 2 3/4, not a lot of options for this size. I bought four new ones to use on the rear and used three of the rears on the front this worked well. However the new ones are 1/2-20x2 3/4x8, only needed a little extra length so i figured i would just cut them off. Well nuts the new ones only had two inches of threads and thats not enough. So using the right die i added about one inch of threads. This worked fine however if you have a shop near by makes them i would just get some made 6 inch long ones will work fine for all but the odd duck.

U-bolts #OMX-18204.08 $13 each

 

[WoodLot]

I don't like computers don't understand how to post pictures and comets.

OK, I have lifted my Roxor about 3 1/2 inch front and 1 inch in the rear. Almost all parts used are easily available to all. There is some fabrication to the shackle kit, drill out holes in degree shims, and i made the 1/2" spacer for trans mount. So i started with installing the "add a leaf" this brought the front up about 2 inches. Then i installed the shackle lift, i am not a fan of these because to many people do this but don't address the problem they make with the pinion angles and caster angle. However i have installed the appropriate leaf spring degree shims to correct the angles. Everyone needs to understand that with the type of drive shafts we have the pinions need to be on the same plane. What this means is if the rear out put shaft of the TC (transfer case) is at an -6 degree angle from horizontal the rear pinion should be at a 6 degree angle, that is on the same plane. The rear pinion will need to as close to perfect as it can but if needed you can go up to 1 1/2 degrees lower, never go higher, that would be 4 1/2 in this example. Now in this example the front output shaft will be at 6 degree. So the front pinion would need to be at a -6 degree angle. The problem with the front axle is we also need to look at the caster angle, i have not been able to find the spec. for are ROXORS. But i do know the the Jeep CJ's and YJ's run best around 6 to 9 degrees of caster. For those who don't know more caster gives the steering wheel a "heavier feel" and the tires will center faster, i normally try to keed this angle around 7 or less degrees for leaf spring jeeps. After installing the shackles i was happy with the height, it is about .1 degrees from level. Now i checked the pinion angles, i use a digital lever about 1 foot long. On our roxors it is easy to do these measurements. If you look at the back of the TC you will see the round cover where you can install a PTO or overdrive this surface is machined at 90 degrees from the TC output shafts. So I put level across the cover and yes it is -6 degrees so i zeroed level. Now on the back of the rear diff i set the level against the two cover bolts on right side of cover, +9 degrees. Went to front diff and use the two bolts on left side of cover +4.5 degrees and caster is maybe +.7 degrees. You can measure your caster by placing a socket on top ball joint, big enough to not touch the ball joint stud but sit on the nut. The axle has about a 5.5 degree caster if you set the pinion to perfect level. So to be perfect the rear pinion needs to go down 3 degrees, and the front needs to go down 10.5 degrees. This will not work, degree shims don't go higher than 8 degrees and the caster will be to much. Front pinion and caster angle fight each other, but on the front axle the pinion angle is not as important as the rear and can be fudged
by a few degrees, up only. I normally allow 2 degrees up but you can go higher, the rear always has torque on it but the front does not. So i installed a 4 degree shim in the rear, now the pinion is 1 degree lower than TC shaft, thats great. I installed a 8 degree shim in the front, now the pinion angle is about -3.5 degrees and caster is +9 degrees, more than i want but it does drive well. Because i wanted to get my front pinion angle better i decided to raise the TC by installing a 1/2 inch spacer between the TC and mount, the one on the cross member. When i did this i also made a 1/4 plate for the second mount on right side of the TC, here you could use fender washers. This raised the TC 1 degree, now my rear pinion was dam near perfect and the front is high by 1.5 degrees. This is great and allows me to change the front to a 6 degree shim and get my caster where i want it. One other thing i liked about raising the TC is the shifter now has more clearance to the E-brake lever. My son has a Roxor as well and we will be doing this lift to his next weekend, we are using the 6 degree shim in his so we can compare the two different angles. Ok so now i am happy with the lift height and angles. The sway bar links work very well they allow adjustment of height, sway bar should be level. I also replaced all four shocks, stock ones are cheap. With the added height the front shocks are not long enough, max extended length is 20 1/2 inch, ride height about 19 inch, need new front shock. The shock i choise has a max extended length of 22 1/2 inch and mounts with the main body up, rod and boot down, so there is no clearance issues. The stock rear shocks don't need to be replaced but i did anyway. So if you want to do this lift you do not need the rear shocks, and if you don't do the TC raise i would recommend staying with the 8 degree shin in the front. With the increase length of the front shocks brake lines are now to short and will need to get longer ones. I will be removing mine tomorrow so i can figure out how we can install longer ones with easy to get parts.


PARTS USED

Pro Comp "add a leaf" #13120 $35

RT Offroad shackle kit #RT21023 $60

Rough Country sway bar links #1186 $60

Blistein 46mm shocks
Front #33-230443 $135
Rear #33-230313 $135

Rubicon Express degree shims
4 degree #RE1467 $34
6 degree #RE1486 $35
8 degree #RE1496 $40

Haerterich,

Thank you for all your detailed info on this modification, it is really appreciated. I hi-lighted a sentence in your above post and attached a pdf with some data for your files. Again thank you for your detailed explanation

 

[Fastcat]

Thank you Sir Great imfo Roxor looks good Rick

 

[Jeepish]

S

I forgot about axle U-bolts. We have three different size U-bolts on are Roxors. Rear axle all four are 1/2-20x2 3/4x6, up front we have two different sizes the one right next to the diff is an odd duck but will work it is long enough for the added degree shin. The other three are 1/2-20x 2 3/4x5 3/4 i was not sure they would be long enough. We have an odd size axle tube outside diameter, 2 3/4, not a lot of options for this size. I bought four new ones to use on the rear and used three of the rears on the front this worked well. However the new ones are 1/2-20x2 3/4x8, only needed a little extra length so i figured i would just cut them off. Well nuts the new ones only had two inches of threads and thats not enough. So using the right die i added about one inch of threads. This worked fine however if you have a shop near by makes them i would just get some made 6 inch long ones will work fine for all but the odd duck.

U-bolts #OMX-18204.08 $13 each

sounds simple enough

 

[Haerterich]

ordered stuff to extend the brake lines, once it all comes in and i figure the right combination of parts i will post the brake upgrade as well.

 

[Fastcat]

YOU rock thank you ,you said you got a 115 hp tune? how you like it and do you think this could be to much for this motor and its longevity is it maxing it out maybe?Thanks Rick.

 

[Jgeib]

Do you need to change the pitman arm on a 1.5” front lift?

 

[Haerterich]

Do you need to change the pitman arm on a 1.5” front lift?

No change is needed, even with i have done the drag link angle is just fine. luckily the Roxor has the better steering system, the jeep TJ was not so lucky one of many reasons "death wobble" is a problem with them. If you find your steering wheel is off a little simply adjust the drag link (the link that goes between the pitman arm and toe bar). As we lift the front the steering wheel will move as if you are turning right, so we will need to add length to the drag link to get steering wheel back to center.

 

[Haerterich]

YOU rock thank you ,you said you got a 115 hp tune? how you like it and do you think this could be to much for this motor and its longevity is it maxing it out maybe?Thanks Rick.

My tune is from CP (Calibrated Power),116hp, and 274 torque, very ha pie with it!! As far as longevity of the engine no, this is a well built motor. The most destructive thing on the motor is the EGR, that needs to go. My son has an 2005 Jeep Liberty with the diesel, when we removed the EGR i could not believe the build up in the intake system. We literally remove two to three cups of gunk from the manifold. However i do have concerns with the clutch, hoping someone will come out with a complete kit. My sons and i have several turbo cars, and as we push the turbos to there limit we do have failures. So I believe that all high power tunes out there are maxing out the ability of the turbo and fuel system. And yes i expect to see turbos fail. I Know turbo upgrades are on the way, and that will fix that problem.

 

[Calebp]

My tune is from CP (Calibrated Power),116hp, and 274 torque, very ha pie with it!! As far as longevity of the engine no, this is a well built motor. The most destructive thing on the motor is the EGR, that needs to go. My son has an 2005 Jeep Liberty with the diesel, when we removed the EGR i could not believe the build up in the intake system. We literally remove two to three cups of gunk from the manifold. However i do have concerns with the clutch, hoping someone will come out with a complete kit. My sons and i have several turbo cars, and as we push the turbos to there limit we do have failures. So I believe that all high power tunes out there are maxing out the ability of the turbo and fuel system. And yes i expect to see turbos fail. I Know turbo upgrades are on the way, and that will fix that problem.

Where did you get your tune from calibrated power?

 

[JoeMc]

I don't like computers don't understand how to post pictures and comets.

OK, I have lifted my Roxor about 3 1/2 inch front and 1 inch in the rear. Almost all parts used are easily available to all. There is some fabrication to the shackle kit, drill out holes in degree shims, and i made the 1/2" spacer for trans mount. So i started with installing the "add a leaf" this brought the front up about 2 inches. Then i installed the shackle lift, i am not a fan of these because to many people do this but don't address the problem they make with the pinion angles and caster angle. However i have installed the appropriate leaf spring degree shims to correct the angles. Everyone needs to understand that with the type of drive shafts we have the pinions need to be on the same plane. What this means is if the rear out put shaft of the TC (transfer case) is at an -6 degree angle from horizontal the rear pinion should be at a 6 degree angle, that is on the same plane. The rear pinion will need to as close to perfect as it can but if needed you can go up to 1 1/2 degrees lower, never go higher, that would be 4 1/2 in this example. Now in this example the front output shaft will be at 6 degree. So the front pinion would need to be at a -6 degree angle. The problem with the front axle is we also need to look at the caster angle, i have not been able to find the spec. for are ROXORS. But i do know the the Jeep CJ's and YJ's run best around 6 to 9 degrees of caster. For those who don't know more caster gives the steering wheel a "heavier feel" and the tires will center faster, i normally try to keed this angle around 7 or less degrees for leaf spring jeeps. After installing the shackles i was happy with the height, it is about .1 degrees from level. Now i checked the pinion angles, i use a digital lever about 1 foot long. On our roxors it is easy to do these measurements. If you look at the back of the TC you will see the round cover where you can install a PTO or overdrive this surface is machined at 90 degrees from the TC output shafts. So I put level across the cover and yes it is -6 degrees so i zeroed level. Now on the back of the rear diff i set the level against the two cover bolts on right side of cover, +9 degrees. Went to front diff and use the two bolts on left side of cover +4.5 degrees and caster is maybe +.7 degrees. You can measure your caster by placing a socket on top ball joint, big enough to not touch the ball joint stud but sit on the nut. The axle has about a 5.5 degree caster if you set the pinion to perfect level. So to be perfect the rear pinion needs to go down 3 degrees, and the front needs to go down 10.5 degrees. This will not work, degree shims don't go higher than 8 degrees and the caster will be to much. Front pinion and caster angle fight each other, but on the front axle the pinion angle is not as important as the rear and can be fudged
by a few degrees, up only. I normally allow 2 degrees up but you can go higher, the rear always has torque on it but the front does not. So i installed a 4 degree shim in the rear, now the pinion is 1 degree lower than TC shaft, thats great. I installed a 8 degree shim in the front, now the pinion angle is about -3.5 degrees and caster is +9 degrees, more than i want but it does drive well. Because i wanted to get my front pinion angle better i decided to raise the TC by installing a 1/2 inch spacer between the TC and mount, the one on the cross member. When i did this i also made a 1/4 plate for the second mount on right side of the TC, here you could use fender washers. This raised the TC 1 degree, now my rear pinion was dam near perfect and the front is high by 1.5 degrees. This is great and allows me to change the front to a 6 degree shim and get my caster where i want it. One other thing i liked about raising the TC is the shifter now has more clearance to the E-brake lever. My son has a Roxor as well and we will be doing this lift to his next weekend, we are using the 6 degree shim in his so we can compare the two different angles. Ok so now i am happy with the lift height and angles. The sway bar links work very well they allow adjustment of height, sway bar should be level. I also replaced all four shocks, stock ones are cheap. With the added height the front shocks are not long enough, max extended length is 20 1/2 inch, ride height about 19 inch, need new front shock. The shock i choise has a max extended length of 22 1/2 inch and mounts with the main body up, rod and boot down, so there is no clearance issues. The stock rear shocks don't need to be replaced but i did anyway. So if you want to do this lift you do not need the rear shocks, and if you don't do the TC raise i would recommend staying with the 8 degree shin in the front. With the increase length of the front shocks brake lines are now to short and will need to get longer ones. I will be removing mine tomorrow so i can figure out how we can install longer ones with easy to get parts.


PARTS USED

Pro Comp "add a leaf" #13120 $35

RT Offroad shackle kit #RT21023 $60

Rough Country sway bar links #1186 $60

Blistein 46mm shocks
Front #33-230443 $135
Rear #33-230313 $135

Rubicon Express degree shims
4 degree #RE1467 $34
6 degree #RE1486 $35
8 degree #RE1496 $40

I ordered the shackles & the 6 degree shims. I'm not planning on lifting the rear. Thanks for the info. I like the way your buggy turned out.