The Real-Deal Twin Stick Mod

[USMC]

Hey Drunk, the Twin Stick basically lets you run in lo or Hi, 4 Wheel or 2 Wheel.

I like the shift plan!

 

[USMC]

Hey Longslyde, do you want KaiserWillys contacting you? I have been requesting info on grille dimensions, and it led into the 2 Stick Conversion kit.

They were asking questions about the install, and I recommended that they speak to you. They are asking for pictures. I think that they are going with my idea to offer Roxor Conversion Kits.

Do you want me to forward your info?

 

[USMC]

By the way Longslyde, you can come to Florida and switch mine over to 2 Stick while I video everything for KaiserWillys!

We do have my office space that my wife took over as a guest room.

 

[Longslyde]

@USMC LMAO! Once was enough for me! It wasn't tough at all, just a little time consuming. But you'll love it when you're done though. As for the contact info, yes, feel free to pass it on to them. I'd be happy to answer any questions they may have.
Thanks!

 

[USMC]

Longslyde, who's gear shift knobs and boots did you use?

 

[Longslyde]

Longslyde, who's gear shift knobs and boots did you use?

Twisted Shifterz knobs and JB Fab boot kit.

 

[Longslyde]

@USMC Did you start digging into it yet?

 

[USMC]

@USMC Did you start digging into it yet?

Not yet. I have been completing work for some clients, so I have been quite busy.

 

[ADEggman]

Thanks for all the info Longslyde. Like you I modify almost everything I own in some way. I have been thinking about building my own twin stick conversion but this is way more straight forward and replacement parts are available.

 

[ADEggman]

Glad all this info is out there. I wanted to know what I am in for before starting this conversion. Just ordered the kit from Kaiser Willys as well as a shim pack. I'll take photos as I go along. The Kaiser Willys website has some good videos on the Dana D-18.

 

[Longslyde]

Awesome guys! You'll love the operation of the twin stick. Just remember the front shft bearing needs to be shimmed forward to make up the difference in the thickness of the nose cone flange between the Roxor and the Dana 18. Mine was ~.080". It needed a shim the same as the center shaft to push the bearing out far enough. Then you can use your shims to make it perfect. I missed it the first time and thought I had it shimmed properly. The resistance from the bearing on the shaft made me believe the tolerenace was right. It was not and 3 miles down the road I had a leaking t-case and loose shaft. When you measure the end play, make sure you pry the shaft back and forth enough to slide the front bearing on the shaft enough to make sure you have all the play out of it. ~.007 is the recommended end play. Do this and you'll be golden. Good luck with the projects!

P.S. Mahindra loves to use the old "Indian Shellac" compound to seal everything up. Those that know what that is will understand. One thing that might throw you off when you try to remove the T-case is how hard it cames apart when you have all the bolts out and thing you missed something because it doesn't just come off. You may have to do some prying to get things apart. just a heads up....

 

[ADEggman]

Well, I got my twin shift kit late Tuesday afternoon along with the shim kit. Removed the T-case Wednesday a.m. and started tearing into everything. Really not that difficult but there are a few things to know about. My Roxor is a 2024 so yours may differ. My drain plug is 5/16" square so I used piece of square ket stock as a wrench. when you pull out the T-case there is a spacer in front of the front input shaft bearing. Make sure it gets reinstalled First thing is that the high/low shift fork was not tie wired on mine. It had red Loctite on the screw. Also, you will need a new pan gasket. I chose to make one using a small ball peen hammer instead of buying one. I have a couple of pictures below. The 4WD/2WD shift fork is pinned to the rail with a .240" roll pin which needs to be driven out with a drift punch. Since the hole diameter is .240" you will need to use a 5/16 set screw. I drilled out the shift fork with a letter "I" size drill and tapped the hole with 5/16" x 24 thread. You will need to dress up the inside of the shift fork with a round file to clean up the burrs. I used red Loctite on the set screw (5/16" x 24 x 3/8" long) Also, the breather on the original case is 1/8" NPT, but the replacement part had 3/8" NPT threads. I got a 3/8" NPT x 1/8" NPT bushing at the local hardware store to solve that problem. Torque King has a really comprehensive video on YouTube showing a complete T-case rebuild. It's worth watching. I just ordered shift boots so I don't have pictures of the finished interior yet. One other thing, The rear driveshaft flange on the T-case has bolts attaching it to the driveshaft. YOU CANNOT PUT THESE BOLTS BACK IN WITH THE FLANGE INSTALLED! I threaded the nuts back onto the bolts and kept them in the flange while I did the install. That way I wouldn't forget them. I ended up needing two .003" shims to get the proper end play on the output shaft so make sure and order the shim kit with the conversion kit.
I hope this information helps anyone wanting to take this on. The important thing is to take your time and watch the available videos on line. They helped me a lot.

Also, thanks to Longsyde for getting me amped up on doing this. Definitely a worthwhile project!!

Just finished up the closure plate and shift boots. Everything is working as it should.

 

[Longslyde]

@ADEggman NICE! Glad you got it! Gotta love that cosmoline eh? You didn't have to shim the front bearing out to get the bearing to fit tight? If not, there must be a difference in the kits out there. I know on mine, the front lip on the nose cone was shallower than the Roxor causing the shaft bearing to loosen on the first drive. I had to use one of the spacers from the Torque King kit to push the bearing tight and then reshim to get the right end play. Anyway, looks like you got it! NIce job and ENJOY!

 

[ADEggman]

@ADEggman NICE! Glad you got it! Gotta love that cosmoline eh? You didn't have to shim the front bearing out to get the bearing to fit tight? If not, there must be a difference in the kits out there. I know on mine, the front lip on the nose cone was shallower than the Roxor causing the shaft bearing to loosen on the first drive. I had to use one of the spacers from the Torque King kit to push the bearing tight and then reshim to get the right end play. Anyway, looks like you got it! NIce job and ENJOY!

Thanks!! Yeah, the cosmoline is always fun. I felt with it a few times in the military. I just went to the gas station and bought a few gallons of regular gas, poured it Ito a small bucket and dropped the parts into it. Let everything soak over night. By morning there was very little residue left. after that a shot of brake clean and the piece was ready for paint.
Hopefully I did the end play right. I bolted on the front cap, then installed the rear cap using the original shim. After that I used a dial indicator on the shaft. I tapped the shaft all the way forward with a brass hammer and set the dial to zero. Next I tapped the shaft backwards and had no end play at all. I installed a .003" shim and still had no end play. I installed second .003" shim and had .002" of end play. I tapped the shaft back and forth a couple of times to double check and I kept getting the same reading. I'm sure Kaiser Willys parts all vary slightly as these castings were made over multiple years and probably even at different foundries.

 

[Longslyde]

The process sound right, and if the reading changed each time, it should have been moving the race in the housing to give proper readings. I would guess you're good to go! Wierd that the nose cone lip depths were so far off on mine. Maybe I got a "Friday" build....lol.

 

[Evh1]

Longslyde - kudos on the twin stick conversion.
I noticed that you went with TrueTrac diffs front n rear with 4.88 gearing. I’ve been ready to convert my 2019 from 3.73 to 4.88s but have been looking at the Torq Locker brand diffs to save some $. What made you opt for the TrueTrac vs others? Any issues with the install? Did you need a case spreader? Thanks!

 

[Longslyde]

@Evh1 It really depends how you will use the Roxor. The Torq lockers work well, but are noisy to me and not always that smoooth on engagement. BUT they will work well if you are planning to get the machine into situations where you have one front ans one rear wheel come off the ground. the Torq Locker will make that easier where you need to apply a little brake to make the True Trac transfer power. If all you do is mud, then you'd love the true tracs. The true trac has perfect road manners, you don't even know its there. Zero Maintenance other than normal gear oil changes. 100% quiet. No Slop. Nothing that really wears out in them either. I've used torq lockers back when they originally came out as lock-rites. If you do go that way, make sure you source a hardened center pin as that's what pushes the torq locker into locking. standard pins will eventually mushroom to the point you would have to torch the pin out if you needed to ever go back in for maintenance. The biggest factor you will run into is the fact that you will need to do the axle upgrade in order to make them fit as they don't make a carrier that fits the Roxor. Being you have to change carriers anyway, the cost between the two setups is about the same since the true trac is a carrier also. The axle upgrade is awesome if you're going bigger tires anyway, The torq lockers are good for those that dont want to do the full upgrade on axle as they just replace the spider gears. All in all, its a personal preference which way you go. If you decide to do the full upgrade on axles and want the true trac style, check out PowerTrax Grip Pro. I just installed a set on the ground-up Jeep build I am doing currently. They are a bit less expensive and a well built unit also.
Oh, and yes, a case spreader does make the job easier. Not a requirement, but it will save you a TON of cuss words trying to remove and install the carriers.

 

[Evh1]

@Longslyde I appreciate the detailed answer! I have used TrueTracs in the past on other 4x4s and they are awesome. I’m not a rock crawler at all. I’m in the AL mud and low hills using the ROXOR for hunting deer n quail and it won’t be on-road really ever. The pin deal on the Torq units isn’t too good, so I’m prolly going to TT units. It looks like you said that the TT units will require an axle upgrade to use the TTs or the PowerTrax, correct? Prolly a good upgrade any way for a unit that will be used pretty hard and in 4x4 Low a lot.
Thanks again for the ref’s.

 

[Longslyde]

@Evh1 No problem! Yes the axle upgrade is necessary because its hard to find TT's or Pro Grips in the proper spline. The upgrade uses 30 spline axles, and would be great because the factory axles are a bit small and more prone to breakage in limited slip situations.

 

[ADEggman]

@Evh1 No problem! Yes the axle upgrade is necessary because its hard to find TT's or Pro Grips in the proper spline. The upgrade uses 31 spline axles, and would be great because the factory axles are a bit small and more prone to breakage in limited slip situations.

Longslyde, What is the spline count on the stock diffs? Did you get your axles from the same place as the carrier?
Thanks, Mike