Finally an Intercooler!!

[Wm435]

I finally finished my intercooler install, total cost was around 350 dollars and time! Lots of time!! The reason is I had to get the correct boots and send stuff back and get new ones because mainly I measure about 4 times and forget what I measured and order stuff anyway!

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So after reading all the post, is it safe to say this technology measures your egt? Under the title "intake"

 

[DesertRox]

So after reading all the post, is it safe to say this technology measures your egt? Under the title "intake"

No, it records intake temps. EGT's need to be measured separately using a probe. Someone did a great write up.

 

[Roxasuras]

I added an EGT gauge very easy to do.

 

[Wm435]

I added an EGT gauge very easy to do.

I think if I just play it safe with the intercooler I wouldn't really need to take into account my EGT, because of the cooling of the intercooler along with the electric fan with shroud

 

[DesertRox]

I think if I just play it safe with the intercooler I wouldn't really need to take into account my EGT, because of the cooling of the intercooler along with the electric fan with shroud

Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.

 

[Roxasuras]

Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.

Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.

Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.

Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.

my thoughts exactly

 

[Wm435]

Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.

Could I just do that plug and play adapter? I saw on another post some is using scan Guage and it measure intake air temp along with other measurements

 

[Roxasuras]

I have the scan gauge as well it doesn’t read egt, but I like it for MPG, rpm, and water temp.

 

[AZROX]

To measure EGTs, you will need to install a pyrometer (between exhaust manifold and turbo) and a gauge.

(Any scanner gauge that plugs into the OBD port can only read what a factory installed sensor puts on the OBD bus.... and the Roxor does not have a pyro).

 

[Wm435]

To measure EGTs, you will need to install a pyrometer (between exhaust manifold and turbo) and a gauge.

(Any scanner gauge that plugs into the OBD port can only read what a factory installed sensor puts on the OBD bus.... and the Roxor does not have a pyro).

But it does air intake from what I read on the box, and I was informed by another member air intake has direct correlation with EGT. So you think it's a good substitute? If I really don't want to undergo doing another small project

 

[Roxasuras]

I personally do not think it is a good substitute, I could be wrong; however, I like to air on the side of caution. I bought the gauge for $50 and install took about an hour taking my time. In my opinion well worth the investment.

 

[Wm435]

I personally do not think it is a good substitute, I could be wrong; however, I like to air on the side of caution. I bought the gauge for $50 and install took about an hour taking my time. In my opinion well worth the investment.

I'll reconsider it. In the meantime you know of any aftermarket bolt on radiators? That can work with my spal fan

 

[AZROX]

Warning: this is a long post full of technical terms and might cause mild vertigo ?

EGT and intake air temp (IAT) are (to a degree) related. If you look up how a turbo works my post will make more sense.

There are two separate air systems /cycles: clean air used for combustion and exhaust gas used to spin the turbo. (Air temperature and pressure are related and there are sensors on the Roxor you can use to monitor them.....)

#1 Circuit is air used for combustion
As the turbo boosts air pressure on its high side, it pulls ambient air (at barometric pressure) through the airfilter on the low side. There is a sensor in on the "clean side" of the air filter that measures the pressure of the ambient air (this is called a barometric pressure sensor). Air pressure changes with weather or altitude (e.g. sea level, 1000ft, 6000ft, sroem rolling in, etc.). I will explain in a minute where the barometric pressure sensor is used.
The turbo "pumps/boosts" the ambient air to X psi above barometric pressure. The ambient air is at ambient air temp (-46F in Alaska in winter, or +120F in Airzona). As the turbo increases pressure, the temperature of the boosted air goes up (physis). The Roxor has a boost pressure sensor and an intake air temperature (IAT) sensor. The boost pressure sensor sits above the turbo. I am guessing that the same sensor also measures IAT. An intercooler can bring the charged air back down to about ambient temperature.
IATs have a safe range. I do not know what the safe range on the Roxor is. I also do not know if the ROXOR ECU defuels the engine (limits power) if IATs get too high. I can read it on my scan gauge. But as an engineer would not know if it is safe or not for the Roxor.

# 2 exhaust gas used to power the turbo. The turbo has the "clean air side" described above. On the "dirty side", exhaust gas that leaves the engine powers the turbo. Exhaust gas temperature (EGT) are high (1100F, 1200F, 1300F ... but I do not know what they are on a Roxor... or what is safe on a Roxor).
The exhaust gas will heat the turbo (look up videos on racing applications and you will see orange glowing turbos). Although ambient air and exhaust gas never mix, the hit turbo will heat the ambient air.
EGT and IAT are related:
- hot EGTs make for a hot turbo. A hot turbo heats the ambient air more.
- hot ambient air will increase EGTs. 110F ambient air will produce hotter EGTs than 30F ambient air.
This matters in high horse power, high torque trucks that haul. On the Roxor, I does not matter to me.

Sensor
The question is what you want to do (can do) with sensor data.

EGT: you will need to install a pyrometer (pyro). Unless you manage defueling of the engine, knowing EGTs is not useful. Modern diesel trucks have pyros from the factory to measure EGTs. The trucks are tuned so high from the factory, they run hot EGTs. They have variable turbs. If EGTs get too high, the truck's ECU will defuel to reduce power or adjust exhaust gas to the turbi.
As for the Roxor, unless you know what EGT is too high and no longer safe and you can actually do something about it (in a split second), knowing EGT is useless data. The Roxor has a very simple mechanical turbo. I'll leave it alone.
If you install a bigger turbo, yes, get a pyro installed and worry about EGTs.
I had a 2004 FORD I had tuned. I installed a pyro so the after market tuning gadged could defuel the engine at a "safe EGT". I read EGTs going to 1400F and set my defuel somwehere at 1300. I never talked to a Ford engineer to ask if that was safe. I read forums like this one that said it was ok. Was it? Well, the turbo never melted.
When I hauled a trailer I would always turn off the tune. My current truck does not need a tune at well over 400Hp and 1000 ftlb from the factory (compare that to my 2004 that I tuned from 325HP to 360Hp).
I don't haul with my Roxor. I dont care about EGTs because I am not stressing the engine to its max.

IAT: Good to know and keep an eye on. But again the question is what is a safe IAT for the Roxor (e.g. 200, 220, 250F)? The IAT sensor comes installed from the factory. Therefore, I assume, the ECU does somerhing with it. What? I do not know. If one is concerned about "high IAT" an intercooler is a good idea.
I am thinking about an intercooler, but have not decided. When it is above 110/115F In Arizona, I dont take my Roxor out for big road trips too often.
If the Roxor engine is from a vehicle made for india by the hundreds of thousands (e.g. Thar), then I do not worry too much about high temperatures. I've been to India. It is very hot (120F), humid, and traffic is at a crawl in cities. If the engine can handle that, it is ok for me to use on highways.
You can read IAT with a scanner fauge that plugs inro the OBD port (you will need an adapter, available online)

Boost pressure: The Roxor service manual calls it that. Its a bit misleading this is not measuring the boost the turbo creates. My scan gauge showed up to 28 psi when I installed it. That is way higher than that little turbo can produce.
The "boist pressure" sensor measures the pressure in the manifold (manifold absolute pressure MAP), which is barometric + boost. MAP is a standard term in the diesel sensor world. I wish the service manual would use the standard term MAP.
Again, only the designer of the engine will know what a safe boost/MAP pressure is. I monitor boost/MAP for curiosity sake.
And again, if the engine is from a vehcile traveling roads in India, i am nit concerned about it
You can read boost/MAP with a scanner gauge that plugs in the OBD

Barometric pressure: my scan gauge uses the boost pressure and the barometric to calculate how much the turbo boosts the ambient (barometric). MAP - barometric pressure = the pressure the turbo generates.
Example: sea level barometric is 14.7 psi. My "boost pressure" which is actually the MAP reads 28 psi. 28 - 14.7 = 13.3. My turbo generates 13.3 psi boost. If you have the after market boost vavle installed, turbo boost will be capped at 16 psi. The highest MAP reading should be 14.7+16 = 30.7 psi.

Coolant temp: yes good idea to monitor it. The dash cluster had the little coolant symbol. With the scanner gauge you can read the actual degrees. You can monitor that with a scanner gauge that plugs in the OBD.

In closing: The Roxor is a simple machine. Don't over-think, over-analyze. Worry less, drive more. ?

The Roxor is not perfect, not frail when used for what is was meant to be.... and a ton of fun to drive.

 

[Roxasuras]

Great post, looks like we just got a Masters in EGT!

 

[Wm435]

Warning: this is a long post full of technical terms and might cause mild vertigo ?

EGT and intake air temp (IAT) are (to a degree) related. If you look up how a turbo works my post will make more sense.

There are two separate air systems /cycles: clean air used for combustion and exhaust gas used to spin the turbo. (Air temperature and pressure are related and there are sensors on the Roxor you can use to monitor them.....)

#1 Circuit is air used for combustion
As the turbo boosts air pressure on its high side, it pulls ambient air (at barometric pressure) through the airfilter on the low side. There is a sensor in on the "clean side" of the air filter that measures the pressure of the ambient air (this is called a barometric pressure sensor). Air pressure changes with weather or altitude (e.g. sea level, 1000ft, 6000ft, sroem rolling in, etc.). I will explain in a minute where the barometric pressure sensor is used.
The turbo "pumps/boosts" the ambient air to X psi above barometric pressure. The ambient air is at ambient air temp (-46F in Alaska in winter, or +120F in Airzona). As the turbo increases pressure, the temperature of the boosted air goes up (physis). The Roxor has a boost pressure sensor and an intake air temperature (IAT) sensor. The boost pressure sensor sits above the turbo. I am guessing that the same sensor also measures IAT. An intercooler can bring the charged air back down to about ambient temperature.
IATs have a safe range. I do not know what the safe range on the Roxor is. I also do not know if the ROXOR ECU defuels the engine (limits power) if IATs get too high. I can read it on my scan gauge. But as an engineer would not know if it is safe or not for the Roxor.

# 2 exhaust gas used to power the turbo. The turbo has the "clean air side" described above. On the "dirty side", exhaust gas that leaves the engine powers the turbo. Exhaust gas temperature (EGT) are high (1100F, 1200F, 1300F ... but I do not know what they are on a Roxor... or what is safe on a Roxor).
The exhaust gas will heat the turbo (look up videos on racing applications and you will see orange glowing turbos). Although ambient air and exhaust gas never mix, the hit turbo will heat the ambient air.
EGT and IAT are related:
- hot EGTs make for a hot turbo. A hot turbo heats the ambient air more.
- hot ambient air will increase EGTs. 110F ambient air will produce hotter EGTs than 30F ambient air.
This matters in high horse power, high torque trucks that haul. On the Roxor, I does not matter to me.

Sensor
The question is what you want to do (can do) with sensor data.

EGT: you will need to install a pyrometer (pyro). Unless you manage defueling of the engine, knowing EGTs is not useful. Modern diesel trucks have pyros from the factory to measure EGTs. The trucks are tuned so high from the factory, they run hot EGTs. They have variable turbs. If EGTs get too high, the truck's ECU will defuel to reduce power or adjust exhaust gas to the turbi.
As for the Roxor, unless you know what EGT is too high and no longer safe and you can actually do something about it (in a split second), knowing EGT is useless data. The Roxor has a very simple mechanical turbo. I'll leave it alone.
If you install a bigger turbo, yes, get a pyro installed and worry about EGTs.
I had a 2004 FORD I had tuned. I installed a pyro so the after market tuning gadged could defuel the engine at a "safe EGT". I read EGTs going to 1400F and set my defuel somwehere at 1300. I never talked to a Ford engineer to ask if that was safe. I read forums like this one that said it was ok. Was it? Well, the turbo never melted.
When I hauled a trailer I would always turn off the tune. My current truck does not need a tune at well over 400Hp and 1000 ftlb from the factory (compare that to my 2004 that I tuned from 325HP to 360Hp).
I don't haul with my Roxor. I dont care about EGTs because I am not stressing the engine to its max.

IAT: Good to know and keep an eye on. But again the question is what is a safe IAT for the Roxor (e.g. 200, 220, 250F)? The IAT sensor comes installed from the factory. Therefore, I assume, the ECU does somerhing with it. What? I do not know. If one is concerned about "high IAT" an intercooler is a good idea.
I am thinking about an intercooler, but have not decided. When it is above 110/115F In Arizona, I dont take my Roxor out for big road trips too often.
If the Roxor engine is from a vehicle made for india by the hundreds of thousands (e.g. Thar), then I do not worry too much about high temperatures. I've been to India. It is very hot (120F), humid, and traffic is at a crawl in cities. If the engine can handle that, it is ok for me to use on highways.
You can read IAT with a scanner fauge that plugs inro the OBD port (you will need an adapter, available online)

Boost pressure: The Roxor service manual calls it that. Its a bit misleading this is not measuring the boost the turbo creates. My scan gauge showed up to 28 psi when I installed it. That is way higher than that little turbo can produce.
The "boist pressure" sensor measures the pressure in the manifold (manifold absolute pressure MAP), which is barometric + boost. MAP is a standard term in the diesel sensor world. I wish the service manual would use the standard term MAP.
Again, only the designer of the engine will know what a safe boost/MAP pressure is. I monitor boost/MAP for curiosity sake.
And again, if the engine is from a vehcile traveling roads in India, i am nit concerned about it
You can read boost/MAP with a scanner gauge that plugs in the OBD

Barometric pressure: my scan gauge uses the boost pressure and the barometric to calculate how much the turbo boosts the ambient (barometric). MAP - barometric pressure = the pressure the turbo generates.
Example: sea level barometric is 14.7 psi. My "boost pressure" which is actually the MAP reads 28 psi. 28 - 14.7 = 13.3. My turbo generates 13.3 psi boost. If you have the after market boost vavle installed, turbo boost will be capped at 16 psi. The highest MAP reading should be 14.7+16 = 30.7 psi.

Coolant temp: yes good idea to monitor it. The dash cluster had the little coolant symbol. With the scanner gauge you can read the actual degrees. You can monitor that with a scanner gauge that plugs in the OBD.

In closing: The Roxor is a simple machine. Don't over-think, over-analyze. Worry less, drive more. ?

The Roxor is not perfect, not frail when used for what is was meant to be.... and a ton of fun to drive.

You just earned an A+ lol. Question, I saw if you get a bigger turbo you should worry about EGT, with that being said I am getting the RX41 installed next month. I thought having a adequate sized turbo will help with cooling the turbo down a little bit more? Are you saying the RX41 will have me run hotter?

 

[AZROX]

Go with what the manufacturer of the new turbo says.

My statement is generic to any turbo out there: When more air gets compressed into an equal volume, heat increases. More boost (pressure), more heat. Physics.

If the larger turbo creates the same boost as the stock turbo, then it ahould run the same temps as stock (same boost, same heat).
If the new turbo has less heat transfer from the exhaust side into the boost side, then the new turbo would would drive cooler air into the engine.
A larger turbo would spin at lower rpms than a small turbo to compress the same amount of air.

By the way, you are in Florida at sea level (barometric 14.7 psi). For that reason alone the air pressure in the engine of your Roxor is 2.5 PSI higher than where I run my machine at 5000 ft (barometric 12.2 psi). your machine as it sits makes more power than mine.

 

[Wm435]

Does anyone know of somebody running a liquid to air intercooler? I am heavily considering this option instead of your air to air intercooler, just personal preference really

 

[DesertRox]

Does anyone know of somebody running a liquid to air intercooler? I am heavily considering this option instead of your air to air intercooler, just personal preference really

This had me interested also but the added cost and complexity scared me off. I would be interested to follow the process if you proceed.

 

[Wm435]

Well after speaking with my mechanic and me just wanting to get off the line quickly advised me to by that air to air from DF

I'm currently in the process of having my mechanic keep the factory fan in place, and adding the DF radiator fan to the other side behind the grill, then next month I will be installing the DF intercooler. It should keep my engine nice and cool enough with my lead foot

He even said he can put a third fan inside with a toggle switch and have me turn it on when I see fit, but I got to think on that one. Don't want my roxor to look goofy underneath the hood or sound like a 3000 pound fan going down the road lol

I'm looking to push out the horsepower as much as I can which is right around 135-140 as per DF, without changing the fuel pump. That requires a more than adequate cooling system set up

 

[DesertRox]

I put together my own kit but would have been much easier to buy the kit!