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Finally an Intercooler!!

Wm435

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I added an EGT gauge very easy to do.
I think if I just play it safe with the intercooler I wouldn't really need to take into account my EGT, because of the cooling of the intercooler along with the electric fan with shroud
 

DesertRox

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I think if I just play it safe with the intercooler I wouldn't really need to take into account my EGT, because of the cooling of the intercooler along with the electric fan with shroud
Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.
 

Roxasuras

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Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.
Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.
Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.
Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.

my thoughts exactly
 

Wm435

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Lower intake temps has a direct correlation to lower EGTs but I would encourage you to run a gauge if you are modifying your Roxor.
Could I just do that plug and play adapter? I saw on another post some is using scan Guage and it measure intake air temp along with other measurements
 
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Roxasuras

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I have the scan gauge as well it doesn’t read egt, but I like it for MPG, rpm, and water temp.
 

Wm435

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To measure EGTs, you will need to install a pyrometer (between exhaust manifold and turbo) and a gauge.

(Any scanner gauge that plugs into the OBD port can only read what a factory installed sensor puts on the OBD bus.... and the Roxor does not have a pyro).
But it does air intake from what I read on the box, and I was informed by another member air intake has direct correlation with EGT. So you think it's a good substitute? If I really don't want to undergo doing another small project
 

Roxasuras

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I personally do not think it is a good substitute, I could be wrong; however, I like to air on the side of caution. I bought the gauge for $50 and install took about an hour taking my time. In my opinion well worth the investment.
 

Wm435

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I personally do not think it is a good substitute, I could be wrong; however, I like to air on the side of caution. I bought the gauge for $50 and install took about an hour taking my time. In my opinion well worth the investment.
I'll reconsider it. In the meantime you know of any aftermarket bolt on radiators? That can work with my spal fan
 

Wm435

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Warning: this is a long post full of technical terms and might cause mild vertigo ?

EGT and intake air temp (IAT) are (to a degree) related. If you look up how a turbo works my post will make more sense.

There are two separate air systems /cycles: clean air used for combustion and exhaust gas used to spin the turbo. (Air temperature and pressure are related and there are sensors on the Roxor you can use to monitor them.....)

#1 Circuit is air used for combustion
As the turbo boosts air pressure on its high side, it pulls ambient air (at barometric pressure) through the airfilter on the low side. There is a sensor in on the "clean side" of the air filter that measures the pressure of the ambient air (this is called a barometric pressure sensor). Air pressure changes with weather or altitude (e.g. sea level, 1000ft, 6000ft, sroem rolling in, etc.). I will explain in a minute where the barometric pressure sensor is used.
The turbo "pumps/boosts" the ambient air to X psi above barometric pressure. The ambient air is at ambient air temp (-46F in Alaska in winter, or +120F in Airzona). As the turbo increases pressure, the temperature of the boosted air goes up (physis). The Roxor has a boost pressure sensor and an intake air temperature (IAT) sensor. The boost pressure sensor sits above the turbo. I am guessing that the same sensor also measures IAT. An intercooler can bring the charged air back down to about ambient temperature.
IATs have a safe range. I do not know what the safe range on the Roxor is. I also do not know if the ROXOR ECU defuels the engine (limits power) if IATs get too high. I can read it on my scan gauge. But as an engineer would not know if it is safe or not for the Roxor.

# 2 exhaust gas used to power the turbo. The turbo has the "clean air side" described above. On the "dirty side", exhaust gas that leaves the engine powers the turbo. Exhaust gas temperature (EGT) are high (1100F, 1200F, 1300F ... but I do not know what they are on a Roxor... or what is safe on a Roxor).
The exhaust gas will heat the turbo (look up videos on racing applications and you will see orange glowing turbos). Although ambient air and exhaust gas never mix, the hit turbo will heat the ambient air.
EGT and IAT are related:
- hot EGTs make for a hot turbo. A hot turbo heats the ambient air more.
- hot ambient air will increase EGTs. 110F ambient air will produce hotter EGTs than 30F ambient air.
This matters in high horse power, high torque trucks that haul. On the Roxor, I does not matter to me.

Sensor
The question is what you want to do (can do) with sensor data.

EGT: you will need to install a pyrometer (pyro). Unless you manage defueling of the engine, knowing EGTs is not useful. Modern diesel trucks have pyros from the factory to measure EGTs. The trucks are tuned so high from the factory, they run hot EGTs. They have variable turbs. If EGTs get too high, the truck's ECU will defuel to reduce power or adjust exhaust gas to the turbi.
As for the Roxor, unless you know what EGT is too high and no longer safe and you can actually do something about it (in a split second), knowing EGT is useless data. The Roxor has a very simple mechanical turbo. I'll leave it alone.
If you install a bigger turbo, yes, get a pyro installed and worry about EGTs.
I had a 2004 FORD I had tuned. I installed a pyro so the after market tuning gadged could defuel the engine at a "safe EGT". I read EGTs going to 1400F and set my defuel somwehere at 1300. I never talked to a Ford engineer to ask if that was safe. I read forums like this one that said it was ok. Was it? Well, the turbo never melted.
When I hauled a trailer I would always turn off the tune. My current truck does not need a tune at well over 400Hp and 1000 ftlb from the factory (compare that to my 2004 that I tuned from 325HP to 360Hp).
I don't haul with my Roxor. I dont care about EGTs because I am not stressing the engine to its max.

IAT: Good to know and keep an eye on. But again the question is what is a safe IAT for the Roxor (e.g. 200, 220, 250F)? The IAT sensor comes installed from the factory. Therefore, I assume, the ECU does somerhing with it. What? I do not know. If one is concerned about "high IAT" an intercooler is a good idea.
I am thinking about an intercooler, but have not decided. When it is above 110/115F In Arizona, I dont take my Roxor out for big road trips too often.
If the Roxor engine is from a vehicle made for india by the hundreds of thousands (e.g. Thar), then I do not worry too much about high temperatures. I've been to India. It is very hot (120F), humid, and traffic is at a crawl in cities. If the engine can handle that, it is ok for me to use on highways.
You can read IAT with a scanner fauge that plugs inro the OBD port (you will need an adapter, available online)

Boost pressure: The Roxor service manual calls it that. Its a bit misleading this is not measuring the boost the turbo creates. My scan gauge showed up to 28 psi when I installed it. That is way higher than that little turbo can produce.
The "boist pressure" sensor measures the pressure in the manifold (manifold absolute pressure MAP), which is barometric + boost. MAP is a standard term in the diesel sensor world. I wish the service manual would use the standard term MAP.
Again, only the designer of the engine will know what a safe boost/MAP pressure is. I monitor boost/MAP for curiosity sake.
And again, if the engine is from a vehcile traveling roads in India, i am nit concerned about it
You can read boost/MAP with a scanner gauge that plugs in the OBD

Barometric pressure: my scan gauge uses the boost pressure and the barometric to calculate how much the turbo boosts the ambient (barometric). MAP - barometric pressure = the pressure the turbo generates.
Example: sea level barometric is 14.7 psi. My "boost pressure" which is actually the MAP reads 28 psi. 28 - 14.7 = 13.3. My turbo generates 13.3 psi boost. If you have the after market boost vavle installed, turbo boost will be capped at 16 psi. The highest MAP reading should be 14.7+16 = 30.7 psi.

Coolant temp: yes good idea to monitor it. The dash cluster had the little coolant symbol. With the scanner gauge you can read the actual degrees. You can monitor that with a scanner gauge that plugs in the OBD.

In closing: The Roxor is a simple machine. Don't over-think, over-analyze. Worry less, drive more. ?

The Roxor is not perfect, not frail when used for what is was meant to be.... and a ton of fun to drive.
You just earned an A+ lol. Question, I saw if you get a bigger turbo you should worry about EGT, with that being said I am getting the RX41 installed next month. I thought having a adequate sized turbo will help with cooling the turbo down a little bit more? Are you saying the RX41 will have me run hotter?
 

Wm435

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Does anyone know of somebody running a liquid to air intercooler? I am heavily considering this option instead of your air to air intercooler, just personal preference really
 

DesertRox

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Does anyone know of somebody running a liquid to air intercooler? I am heavily considering this option instead of your air to air intercooler, just personal preference really
This had me interested also but the added cost and complexity scared me off. I would be interested to follow the process if you proceed.
 

Wm435

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Well after speaking with my mechanic and me just wanting to get off the line quickly advised me to by that air to air from DF
I'm currently in the process of having my mechanic keep the factory fan in place, and adding the DF radiator fan to the other side behind the grill, then next month I will be installing the DF intercooler. It should keep my engine nice and cool enough with my lead foot

He even said he can put a third fan inside with a toggle switch and have me turn it on when I see fit, but I got to think on that one. Don't want my roxor to look goofy underneath the hood or sound like a 3000 pound fan going down the road lol

I'm looking to push out the horsepower as much as I can which is right around 135-140 as per DF, without changing the fuel pump. That requires a more than adequate cooling system set up
 
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Wm435

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I put together my own kit but would have been much easier to buy the kit!
I think with a DF intercooler + stock fan+ electric fan in front of the grill facing the radiator + another electric fan facing towards the motor might keep it ice cold figure of speech of course
 
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1BB

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I just want to add some thing here.

An intercoolers job is not to cool down your intake or engine at all. Does it help do that, yes, it does, but that is just a byproduct of it doing its main job, and that is to cool down air. It's like a heater core, does a heater core cool down your engine slightly, yes it does, but that's because it is removing that heat from the engine to warm up the passenger compartment, and cooling down your engine slightly is just a byproduct of the heat core doing its main job....and that's warming you up in the winter.

Cooler air is denser air, and denser air means you can get more air into the combustion chamber, and thus more air means more complete burning of the diesel fuel, and that means more power. How much, usually 5% to an extreme of as much as 15% in some cases.

When that cooler air gets inside that engine, you now have MORE air inside the combustion chamber, and now more air is still being compressed at 18 to 1 or higher compression ratio, that air gets HOT HOT HOT, and it has to, or the engine won't run when the injector sprays a mist of diesel fuel inside that HOT air in the combustion chamber.

Now when it comes out of your exhaust, it is not going to be cooler because it went into your engine cooler to begin with. It still has to be compressed at a very high ratio to generate enough heat to fire the diesel when it's injected into the cylinder.

This is just like when people say that wet weather or rain causes their joints to ache. So you need to move out west where it does not rain and you'll feel better and have less pain. Well, they're wrong. It's not the rain or wet, it is the fact that rain usually cools off the air slightly, and makes the air denser, like an intercooler, thus increasing the air pressure slightly and that pressure increase is felt on your joints and it hurts. Moving out to Arizona helps, not because it's dry, it's because it is sunny and HOT and hot air is less dense, and less dense air means less pressure felt on your joints. It's all about air pressure and density, NOT the rain or wet. You sweat to cool off, well the rain is sweat to the air around you and cooling it off.

Compression and the heat generated from it, is what makes the diesel engine work, and this is why gasoline engines have to run at a lower compression ratio like 8 to 1, because if they go higher, the heat generated will cause the air fuel mixture to ignite by itself before the spark plug starts the ignition or firing processes. This is called detonation, and you'll hear it in the form of pinging in your engine. That's because two flame fronts are moving towards each other and when they collide or hit each other, you hear that "PINGING" sound in your engine. One flame front is caused by the air fuel igniting itself due to too high of a compression ratio or too low of octane in the fuel, and the other flame front is started by the spark plug......when they meet, they ping. Detonation is when the air fuel ignites itself, and pre-ignition is when some thing else ignites the air fuel mixture before the spark plug, like a hot piece of carbon build up, but either way it's all pre-ignition and very bad for your engine.

Now octane put in its simplest terms, means the resistance to burn. The higher the octane, the HARDER it is to get that gasoline to ignite. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that higher octane fuel gives them more power....it doesn't. It allows you to add components to your engine, like higher compression pistons, turbos, blowers and things like that, and get more power out of your engine, and not risk premature ignition of your air fuel.

Diesel fuel has a rating too, and that's called cetane, but cetane does the opposite of octane, in that the higher the cetane rating, the easier it is to ignite the diesel fuel. It makes diesel fuel burn easier, and this is important in colder weather. Remember, you need A LOT of heat in that combustion chamber for that diesel fuel to ignite and burn, and lowering your intake temps too much is NOT good at all.

Me personally, I would not worry about an intercooler at all or those intake or exhaust temps, unless you're looking to get as much power out of your engine as possible and maybe increase mileage slightly, but you'd only see that as an over the road driver, not farting around in a Roxor on the back roads or back 40. For "ME", the juice just ain't worth the squeeze here, but what the hell do I know.
 

Roxor2360

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I just finished up the intercooler in southeast georgia with stage 2 df tune, boost increase valve and full exhaust I used your roxor as a starting point for the kit I made I just have to change out the pipe for the sensor to make it all look good together but at a steady 60 mph my iat was around 200* on a 85* day after the intercooler I’m around 85* on a 70* day the highest I could ever get my iat was 90* great write up and parts list by the way I like how the sensor is on the cold side imo it gives the ecu more accurate data to use sorry in advanced I don’t have better pictures by the time it was finish I was just ready to ride I wasn’t worried about pictures lol

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