SHACKLE LIFT, WHEEL SPACERS, FLAT TOWING, PINION SPACERS, OH MY!

BDRAG

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Okay, the thread title about covers it. This is going to be a long winded thread. At some points I will get off track or jump around, that's because I'm old, fat, gimp, anal, dislexic and oh a diabetic with size 14 flat feet.

To start with, I want to thank Max A for his great 1-1/2" front shackle lift and 1" rear shackle lift set up that he produces. Also, Max seems to have a lot of hands on knowlage and shares that knowlage willingly as if he is your next door neighbor that you have had a beer with for decades.

To start with, while in our Stay Home mode, I installed the lift kit. Took about 30 minutes in the hands of my friend Pete who has most tools one could want and since I am a Magiver for his projects, he is my hands for my projects, the first line explains my physique. Lol. After installing the lift shackles there is NO NEED TO ADJUST ANYTHING STEERING LINK WISE. We did and after some towing issues went back stock.

As I have mentioned in another thread, during the Stay Home period I also ordered a set of 1-1/2" wheel spacers. If you buy spacers, 108 mm center hole is what most buy with 1/2-20 threads. I bought a set for $94.00 from Sixity auto. Mine had a center bore of 106.5 mm. I did not know most buy the larger bore till after I ordered mine. S H I T ! I got lucky and the 106.5mm worked perfect with the removal of 3 side by side warren hub attach screws with washers that kept it from just sliding on. Prior to installing the spacers, scarpe off all the stuck paint from the back of your wheels and the drum and rotor hubs. I repainted after clean up. I then installed the spacers with Blue Lock Tite on the threads of the nuts. I Torqued them to 60 ft lbs. That number is a guess as to just what is required. I'm old, that's all I can muster. Lol. I then re installed the OEM Aluminum wheels with BFG's that came on it. Look and fit great! Flushed the tires with the flairs. The stance with the lift and 1-1/2 spacers is just what I think the roxor should have come like from the factory.

After adding the lift and the wheel spacers, having emailed all of this with Max, he says that a few people that flat tow have had issues with the lift and spacer combo. Basically the lift rolls or rotates the front axle assembly downward at the front side. This causes the OEM camber to get off and this can cause the tow in to not be on the correct plane to forward movement. When I discussed this with Max he explained he had this issue on an old YJ jeep he had. Max suggested adding a 3 or 4 degree pinion shim between the axle and spring. Said this will roll the axle assembly back to where it needs to be. So I ordered a set of 2.5" wide, 4 degree wedge shims from Summit for about $40.00

So today I got the Roxor backed into the garage. Got my 5 x 7 carpet out to lay on and crawled under to see just what is needed to install the shims. After cleaning all the grime and sand off all the U Bolts and such I decided there was no freaking way I can do this myself with one jack and a few jack stands while my fat ass is laying on the ground. Lol. So I called Pete and I dragged the Roxor to his well equipped 60 x 90 building with a lift. Flat towing over I could tell the wheel spacers were making the tracking of the Roxor front tires work. As I pulled onto the big nice clean cement pad in front of Pete's, I made a s turn to park along side the building. When I got out, Pete was already looking at the scrub marks on the cement from the Roxor front tires. The right front tire was still squished under from binding up due to not tracking correctly.

So we decided to un hook the tow bar. So I undo the ball latch and when I tried to pivot it up it was locked on. So like a dumbass that I am I forced it. BAM! The ball released and the tow bar jumped to the side of the ball 3 or 4 inches. WOW what a side load. So we shuffle the Roxor back and onto his lift. Since the Roxor axle sits atop the leaf spring pack, We jacked up the Roxor and placed a set of jack stands under the frame behind the rear of the leaf on both sides. Then lowered the axle down till the tires sat on the lift runner. Then we loosens up the sway bar rod on the drivers side at both ends and removed it. With the tranny Jack under the front axle we then loosened the U bolts on the drivers side that attach it all together. We then jacked the axle up using the post jack or tranny jack. This allowed us to raise the axle above the spring allowing access to the spring pack pin that is a threaded pin that is attached through the spring pack from the top, the axle pad is located on the portion of the bolt /pin that protrudes trough the leaf.

The wedge spacer came with a hole for the pin but it was to small for the pin / bolt. So we drilled it out to just over 3/8". The wedge has a flat area machined on one surface to allow the head of the pin to set on a flush or parallel plaine to the lower surface so the pin is not in a binde. We then un bolted this pin. This required vise grips on the locating portion above the spring and when removing the nut it gets real tight as it comes off. So it looked like Mahindra smacks the threads after the nuts on to keep the nut from falling off. So before it goes back on, the threads need some grinding, filling and reshaping if you plan on re using it. We did. We added a few c clamps to the spring pack to keep it lined up when we remove the pin. We Slapped the wedge on the spring, dropped the pin through the wedge and leaf spring and got the nut to re thread on. Yeah! We then lowered the axle back down then moved the tranny Jack under the spring and lower plate and jacked the leaf back up till the pin located back in the hole on the axle saddle. Then re installed the u bolts. Now we could not tighten them up because the passenger side is still attached. The wedge will not allow the u bolts to be tightened down yet. It puts it in a bind. We Re installed the sway bar link. Then repeated the process on the passenger side. It was a bi tch to get the second side pin to line up because the axle moved rearward when the leaf was dropped away from the axle or when we jacked the axle up with the tranny Jack.

Once both sides were all back together Pete torqued down all the u bolts. The thickness of the wedge only allows for 1 thread to protrude through the u bolt lock nut. Any shorter and I would buy new u bolts. The OEM u bolts just barely work with 4 degree shim. The shim adds about 3/8" thickness at the front. Did I mention the thick part of the wedge goes front wards? It do.

So we get all the crap out from under, get it off the Jack stands and off the lift. We did a road test. Drives great! No issues with speed up to 55-60 mph. Steers fine. So once back from the test drive we re check the tow in. Still in the 1/8"-1/4" range. Old school formula according to Pete. Lol. So we hook up the tow bar and I went for a drive. All went fine. As I pulled in to Petes, I followed the same path or track marks on the cement as close as I could from earlier. I stop and jump out to look. Whalah! Badabing! There are no scrub marks from the tires. I loosened the tow bar and no issues raising the tow bar off the ball with the Roxor in a turn. No side load! Yeeeeehaw! So with a good job done by all, the Roxor tracks good on the tow bar again and no scrubbing in turns and tracked great up to 60 mph. Whew, I think I'm done. Lol.

Again, thanks to Max A, my buddy Pete and all the great info from people here. I hope this helps those who flat tow and decide to do a shackle lift with wheel spacers.

BDRAG

IMG_20200418_171506~2.jpg IMG_20200401_171234.jpg IMG_20200401_155353.jpg

IMG_20200418_171506~2.jpg IMG_20200401_171234.jpg IMG_20200401_155353.jpg

IMG_20200418_171506~2.jpg IMG_20200401_171234.jpg IMG_20200401_155353.jpg
 
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BDRAG

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Oh crap! I just realized the wedge shim decreased my 1-1/2 inch shackle lift to only 1-1/4 lift. Waaaaaaaa! Hahaaaaaa. Oh well.

BDRAG
 

Bob R

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Great Write-up!
Nice to have Max and all of his knowledge and expertise on tap to help with our projects.
Lots of really useful information, and good detail on your install.
Glad you have a good friend who has a nice shop to help with your project.
I full understand the significance of the concrete floor. This is something I plan to address on my shop building this Summer. Trying to work on dirt sucks. Keep us informed on any future improvements.

Bob R
 
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Rolandwanders

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I just experienced this same issue this weekend in Phoenix after trying to flat tow after installing 1.5 inch shackles up front, true enough it doesn't track straight anymore. Did fine Dane setup with stock parts, guess I gotta look at these shims, thanks!
 

BDRAG

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I just experienced this same issue this weekend in Phoenix after trying to flat tow after installing 1.5 inch shackles up front, true enough it doesn't track straight anymore. Did fine Dane setup with stock parts, guess I gotta look at these shims, thanks!


Oh what fun. Lol. I went with 4 * shims. I think 3* would be fine as well. BUY STEEL SHIMS. I suspected aluminum would not last as long and after researching many have had to replace the aluminum ones due to corrosion. Many aluminum ones are cast.

BDRAG
 

75f250

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Yea, the aluminum shims have a tendency to deform and work the u bolts loose. Rubicon express makes steel shims.
 

BDRAG

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I just experienced this same issue this weekend in Phoenix after trying to flat tow after installing 1.5 inch shackles up front, true enough it doesn't track straight anymore. Did fine Dane setup with stock parts, guess I gotta look at these shims, thanks!


Also, I did not feel it was unsafe to tow before the shims. It tracked straight, Just scrubbed the tires in some turns. I made as wide of turns as I could and took it easy. It was lots of side load for sure on the tow bar.

BDRAG
 

BDRAG

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Oh what fun. Lol. I went with 4 * shims. I think 3* would be fine as well. BUY STEEL SHIMS. I suspected aluminum would not last as long and after researching many have had to replace the aluminum ones due to corrosion. Many aluminum ones are cast.

BDRAG


I bought the Rubicon Express Pinion Angle Shims RE1467
Rubicon Express Pinion Angle Shims RE1467

BDRAG
 

BDRAG

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I just experienced this same issue this weekend in Phoenix after trying to flat tow after installing 1.5 inch shackles up front, true enough it doesn't track straight anymore. Did fine Dane setup with stock parts, guess I gotta look at these shims, thanks!

You buy your shims yet? I am towing down to my tree farm this weekend. Its about 150-160 miles each way. Ill report.

BDRAG
 

P Bleskey

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Okay, the thread title about covers it. This is going to be a long winded thread. At some points I will get off track or jump around, that's because I'm old, fat, gimp, anal, dislexic and oh a diabetic with size 14 flat feet.

To start with, I want to thank Max A for his great 1-1/2" front shackle lift and 1" rear shackle lift set up that he produces. Also, Max seems to have a lot of hands on knowlage and shares that knowlage willingly as if he is your next door neighbor that you have had a beer with for decades.

To start with, while in our Stay Home mode, I installed the lift kit. Took about 30 minutes in the hands of my friend Pete who has most tools one could want and since I am a Magiver for his projects, he is my hands for my projects, the first line explains my physique. Lol. After installing the lift shackles there is NO NEED TO ADJUST ANYTHING STEERING LINK WISE. We did and after some towing issues went back stock.

As I have mentioned in another thread, during the Stay Home period I also ordered a set of 1-1/2" wheel spacers. If you buy spacers, 108 mm center hole is what most buy with 1/2-20 threads. I bought a set for $94.00 from Sixity auto. Mine had a center bore of 106.5 mm. I did not know most buy the larger bore till after I ordered mine. S H I T ! I got lucky and the 106.5mm worked perfect with the removal of 3 side by side warren hub attach screws with washers that kept it from just sliding on. Prior to installing the spacers, scarpe off all the stuck paint from the back of your wheels and the drum and rotor hubs. I repainted after clean up. I then installed the spacers with Blue Lock Tite on the threads of the nuts. I Torqued them to 60 ft lbs. That number is a guess as to just what is required. I'm old, that's all I can muster. Lol. I then re installed the OEM Aluminum wheels with BFG's that came on it. Look and fit great! Flushed the tires with the flairs. The stance with the lift and 1-1/2 spacers is just what I think the roxor should have come like from the factory.

After adding the lift and the wheel spacers, having emailed all of this with Max, he says that a few people that flat tow have had issues with the lift and spacer combo. Basically the lift rolls or rotates the front axle assembly downward at the front side. This causes the OEM camber to get off and this can cause the tow in to not be on the correct plane to forward movement. When I discussed this with Max he explained he had this issue on an old YJ jeep he had. Max suggested adding a 3 or 4 degree pinion shim between the axle and spring. Said this will roll the axle assembly back to where it needs to be. So I ordered a set of 2.5" wide, 4 degree wedge shims from Summit for about $40.00

So today I got the Roxor backed into the garage. Got my 5 x 7 carpet out to lay on and crawled under to see just what is needed to install the shims. After cleaning all the grime and sand off all the U Bolts and such I decided there was no freaking way I can do this myself with one jack and a few jack stands while my fat ass is laying on the ground. Lol. So I called Pete and I dragged the Roxor to his well equipped 60 x 90 building with a lift. Flat towing over I could tell the wheel spacers were making the tracking of the Roxor front tires work. As I pulled onto the big nice clean cement pad in front of Pete's, I made a s turn to park along side the building. When I got out, Pete was already looking at the scrub marks on the cement from the Roxor front tires. The right front tire was still squished under from binding up due to not tracking correctly.

So we decided to un hook the tow bar. So I undo the ball latch and when I tried to pivot it up it was locked on. So like a dumbass that I am I forced it. BAM! The ball released and the tow bar jumped to the side of the ball 3 or 4 inches. WOW what a side load. So we shuffle the Roxor back and onto his lift. Since the Roxor axle sits atop the leaf spring pack, We jacked up the Roxor and placed a set of jack stands under the frame behind the rear of the leaf on both sides. Then lowered the axle down till the tires sat on the lift runner. Then we loosens up the sway bar rod on the drivers side at both ends and removed it. With the tranny Jack under the front axle we then loosened the U bolts on the drivers side that attach it all together. We then jacked the axle up using the post jack or tranny jack. This allowed us to raise the axle above the spring allowing access to the spring pack pin that is a threaded pin that is attached through the spring pack from the top, the axle pad is located on the portion of the bolt /pin that protrudes trough the leaf.

The wedge spacer came with a hole for the pin but it was to small for the pin / bolt. So we drilled it out to just over 3/8". The wedge has a flat area machined on one surface to allow the head of the pin to set on a flush or parallel plaine to the lower surface so the pin is not in a binde. We then un bolted this pin. This required vise grips on the locating portion above the spring and when removing the nut it gets real tight as it comes off. So it looked like Mahindra smacks the threads after the nuts on to keep the nut from falling off. So before it goes back on, the threads need some grinding, filling and reshaping if you plan on re using it. We did. We added a few c clamps to the spring pack to keep it lined up when we remove the pin. We Slapped the wedge on the spring, dropped the pin through the wedge and leaf spring and got the nut to re thread on. Yeah! We then lowered the axle back down then moved the tranny Jack under the spring and lower plate and jacked the leaf back up till the pin located back in the hole on the axle saddle. Then re installed the u bolts. Now we could not tighten them up because the passenger side is still attached. The wedge will not allow the u bolts to be tightened down yet. It puts it in a bind. We Re installed the sway bar link. Then repeated the process on the passenger side. It was a bi tch to get the second side pin to line up because the axle moved rearward when the leaf was dropped away from the axle or when we jacked the axle up with the tranny Jack.

Once both sides were all back together Pete torqued down all the u bolts. The thickness of the wedge only allows for 1 thread to protrude through the u bolt lock nut. Any shorter and I would buy new u bolts. The OEM u bolts just barely work with 4 degree shim. The shim adds about 3/8" thickness at the front. Did I mention the thick part of the wedge goes front wards? It do.

So we get all the crap out from under, get it off the Jack stands and off the lift. We did a road test. Drives great! No issues with speed up to 55-60 mph. Steers fine. So once back from the test drive we re check the tow in. Still in the 1/8"-1/4" range. Old school formula according to Pete. Lol. So we hook up the tow bar and I went for a drive. All went fine. As I pulled in to Petes, I followed the same path or track marks on the cement as close as I could from earlier. I stop and jump out to look. Whalah! Badabing! There are no scrub marks from the tires. I loosened the tow bar and no issues raising the tow bar off the ball with the Roxor in a turn. No side load! Yeeeeehaw! So with a good job done by all, the Roxor tracks good on the tow bar again and no scrubbing in turns and tracked great up to 60 mph. Whew, I think I'm done. Lol.

Again, thanks to Max A, my buddy Pete and all the great info from people here. I hope this helps those who flat tow and decide to do a shackle lift with wheel spacers.

BDRAG

View attachment 6388 View attachment 6389 View attachment 6390

View attachment 6388 View attachment 6389 View attachment 6390

View attachment 6388 View attachment 6389 View attachment 6390
You buy your shims yet? I am towing down to my tree farm this weekend. Its about 150-160 miles each way. Ill report.

BDRAG
So I installed Max’s 2 1/2” leveling shackles on my ROXOR. I want to add 1 1/2” spacers as well. How do I identify whether I have the same problem you have addressed here? I do flat tow as well.
 

75f250

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Well, if you’ve installed the lift shackles on it, you will need to shim the axle to correct the camber and pinion angle. That’s the down side of lift shackles, shimming is required
 

BDRAG

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So I installed Max’s 2 1/2” leveling shackles on my ROXOR. I want to add 1 1/2” spacers as well. How do I identify whether I have the same problem you have addressed here? I do flat tow as well.
After the spacers are on, hook up and find a near by flat paved surface or parking lot and make a turn that's like you would take in a neighbor hood street. Not real tight but a turn and stop while you are still turning. You will probably feel the tow vehicle struggle a little to roll or coast. Get out and look at the tires on the Roxor. If it's nice new clean cement you will see scrub track marks from the Roxor tires, side load. The tire on the outside of the direction of turn will be the one that looks or scrubs the most. Ex, you turn in a circle to the left, the right front tire of the Roxor will be loaded side ways from left towards the right. Looks like a radial tire flex commercial. Lol.

Like said in my post, I un hooked the tow bar under these conditions, turned to left. The tow bar was in a very tight bind, I forced it and POW, the tow bar did come off and it jumped to the right of the ball about 3 or 4 inches. The Roxor shook enough to tump my 32 oz. quick trip Dr Pepper sitting over / on the rear wheel well on the drivers side to tump over!

I am towing about 320 miles tommarra to my tree farm in east Texas in the morn. I will report back.

BDRAG
 

BDRAG

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So I installed Max’s 2 1/2” leveling shackles on my ROXOR. I want to add 1 1/2” spacers as well. How do I identify whether I have the same problem you have addressed here? I do flat tow as well.

A note to ALL who tow, it is very important that you get the tow bar pulling as level with the hitch as possible for the best results. I had to get a no drop draw bar for my receiver hitch on my F150 to sit level with my bumper attached tow bar on the Roxor.

BDRAG
 

BDRAG

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TOW REPORT!

So, I dragged the Roxor with the Max A 1-1/2" front, 1"rear shackle lift, 1-1/2 " wheel spacers and the 4 degree axle shims. I towed about 160 miles to my property at 65 mph. Once there I made a 20 mile loop into Elkhart for some weed killer. Drove about 3 or 4 miles around the land working. Towed 160 miles back.

It towed fantastic. Even tracked me as I had to evade an idiot in front of me stopping in the middle of the road, me diving right as I came to a stop along his right side of the lawn trailer he was pulling. It drove fine at its sweet spot of 60-62 mph or about 2100-2200 rpm. Had a blast.

So all is right in my Roxor garage for now!!!

BDRAG
 

P Bleskey

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After the spacers are on, hook up and find a near by flat paved surface or parking lot and make a turn that's like you would take in a neighbor hood street. Not real tight but a turn and stop while you are still turning. You will probably feel the tow vehicle struggle a little to roll or coast. Get out and look at the tires on the Roxor. If it's nice new clean cement you will see scrub track marks from the Roxor tires, side load. The tire on the outside of the direction of turn will be the one that looks or scrubs the most. Ex, you turn in a circle to the left, the right front tire of the Roxor will be loaded side ways from left towards the right. Looks like a radial tire flex commercial. Lol.

Like said in my post, I un hooked the tow bar under these conditions, turned to left. The tow bar was in a very tight bind, I forced it and POW, the tow bar did come off and it jumped to the right of the ball about 3 or 4 inches. The Roxor shook enough to tump my 32 oz. quick trip Dr Pepper sitting over / on the rear wheel well on the drivers side to tump over!

I am towing about 320 miles tommarra to my tree farm in east Texas in the morn. I will report back.

BDRAG
Thanks BDRAG!
 

P Bleskey

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No not yet, haven’t taken the time since I haven’t towed it recently. I can clearly see this needs to be done. I’m assuming a 4 degree is what I need.
 

BDRAG

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No not yet, haven’t taken the time since I haven’t towed it recently. I can clearly see this needs to be done. I’m assuming a 4 degree is what I need.
That is what I used. Max A suggested and so far Max has hit the nail on the head with his info.

BDRAG
 
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