Overheating under load.

[subbox]

I can get a custom Copper 4 Fin Radiator made ,May be that can help.
Let me know if anyone needs it

Subbox007@gmail.com
Whats App - +91 9321122388

 

[Uncle Chuck]

Ok guys. I’ve got a 2019. 4.56 gears, 33” tires. Don’t know if I’ve got a stage 2 or 3 upgrade for the computer, but I would really appreciate some input from someone who can give me the straight skinny.
Here’s my deal….. pulling a load uphill at highway speeds, water temperature is hitting 220 or maybe more. I’ve already got a fan shroud. Stock fan, radiator and thermostat. I’ve deleted the egr and the catalytic converter. I’m only slightly concerned about the coolant temps. What really pisses me off is the IAT. Intake air temperature. I’m seeing numbers in the 250 range! I’m not really seeing anybody else being very concerned, though.
Here’s my thought process….. with high intake temperatures, air will be much less dense and therefore will not provide as much oxygen to the combustion process as would cool air.
Here’s another thing going on in my head…. I have a 2004 F250 with the 6.0 Diesel engine. I’ve already spent some big bucks getting it bulletproofed (Bulletproof Diesel in Mesa,AZ- great guys!) and I’m very happy with it. Got around 215k miles on it and still going great.
I’ve got scan gauges on both vehicles. The intake air temperature for the truck never goes more than 20 degrees above ambient air temperature. When it’s 115 outside, I’ll get maybe 130-140 iat’s.
So…… why can’t the ROXOR do that??????????

 

[Colderweather86]

Your truck has a charge air cooler. The roxor does not. Your turbo temps are going straight into the intake.

 

[1BB]

There's nothing wrong with your engine. The very fact that your temps are up, says you have complete or as good as it gets combustion going on. If you didn't have complete combustion, you would not be able to pull a sick whore off a piss pot with that vehicle, let alone pull a load up hill.

Like CW86 above said, you're burning fuel because of the load, and it's heating up your exhaust gases, and in turn the turbo, and the turbo is transferring some of the heat to your intake air. No magic, and no getting around it, and no reason to be worried. That engine does not care if your intake temps are 150 or 250.

Your Ford truck, they put that on your engine for one reason, to increase FLEET MPG average. All car companies have to meet a certain MPG set by our gooberment, and now they're trying to squeeze every mile they can out of an engine. I don't remember exactly, but I think the new standard is around 50 MPG for the fleet average, but don't hold my feet to the fire on that.

The slight difference in the air density can only be seriously realized over a large fleet like a manufacturer or over the road trucks putting on 100's of 1,000's of miles a year. This is what it was made for, over the road hauling where truckers put on 100,000 to 150,000 miles a year. Now that slight 5% increase means slightly better MPG, and at 150k and maybe 6 MPG for a trucker, that means he's burning 25,000 gallons of fuel a year. If he can increase that by 5% with an intercooler, he's getting 6.3 MPG and burning 23,809 gallons of fuel for a savings of 1,191 gallons which means, depending on fuel prices, between $4,000 and $5,000 a year in fuel savings. Here an intercooler starts making serious sense, but for a Roxor.....well, to me, the juice just "AIN'T" worth the squeeze.

That engine does not care really what those intake temps are, because they'll never get high enough to matter. Before they ever do, your turbo will cast her withers because the exhaust gases will need to just about melt that thing before intake temps start to matter.

As far as engine coolant temps, again, as a great philosopher once said....."SO?"

I mean at 220, that's nothing, even 250 isn't a big deal if there's a real reason, like you're working the engine hard like pulling a load up hill, and once that heavy load is reduced, the temps come down.

Cooling systems have pressure caps, and most are 15 PSI. What that means is as your coolant gets hot, HEAT cause coolant to expand, and HEAT is what builds up the pressure, not a water pump. The coolant, as it gets hot, it wants to boil, but it can no longer boil at 212 like normal, because of your pressure cap.

For every POUND of pressure in your cap, you RAISE the boiling point by THREE DEGREES. So, with a 15-pound cap, you've raised the boiling point another 45 degrees, so your new boiling point goes from 212 to 257 degrees.

If your engines coolant goes beyond that point, the cap releases the excess pressure and coolant flows into your overflow tank, and not on the ground where you lose it. Once the engine cools, and the coolant returns to its normal state of volume from where it had expanded from when hot, the coolant is sucked back into the radiator and cooling system because the shrinking coolant creates a vacuum in the system and the vacuum valve in your radiator cap opens and lets coolant flow back into the cooling system from the overflow tank.

This is why you NEVER remove a hot radiator cap. When you do that, you instantly lower the boiling point back down to 212, and it boils out everywhere and you lose it....along with some skin more than likely, but still, your engine doesn't care about 250 or 300 degrees...it just doesn't. I mean that cast iron, and modern fluids and gaskets, it's not a big deal. I mean I wouldn't make a habit of it, because it is reducing the life of fluids to some degree, and reduced fluid life, can mean reduced engine life if let go too long, but for pulling loads up hills....no biggie. She's doing what she was designed to do. When you work, you get hot, when your Roxor works, she gets warmer, and neither of you will die from working hard and getting warmed up....well your Roxor won't anyway.

I hope this helps.

 

[Vinny]

"Sick whore off a piss pot" Couldn't read the rest. Laughing ??too hard.

 

[Uncle Chuck]

There's nothing wrong with your engine. The very fact that your temps are up, says you have complete or as good as it gets combustion going on. If you didn't have complete combustion, you would not be able to pull a sick whore off a piss pot with that vehicle, let alone pull a load up hill.

Like CW86 above said, you're burning fuel because of the load, and it's heating up your exhaust gases, and in turn the turbo, and the turbo is transferring some of the heat to your intake air. No magic, and no getting around it, and no reason to be worried. That engine does not care if your intake temps are 150 or 250.

Your Ford truck, they put that on your engine for one reason, to increase FLEET MPG average. All car companies have to meet a certain MPG set by our gooberment, and now they're trying to squeeze every mile they can out of an engine. I don't remember exactly, but I think the new standard is around 50 MPG for the fleet average, but don't hold my feet to the fire on that.

The slight difference in the air density can only be seriously realized over a large fleet like a manufacturer or over the road trucks putting on 100's of 1,000's of miles a year. This is what it was made for, over the road hauling where truckers put on 100,000 to 150,000 miles a year. Now that slight 5% increase means slightly better MPG, and at 150k and maybe 6 MPG for a trucker, that means he's burning 25,000 gallons of fuel a year. If he can increase that by 5% with an intercooler, he's getting 6.3 MPG and burning 23,809 gallons of fuel for a savings of 1,191 gallons which means, depending on fuel prices, between $4,000 and $5,000 a year in fuel savings. Here an intercooler starts making serious sense, but for a Roxor.....well, to me, the juice just "AIN'T" worth the squeeze.

That engine does not care really what those intake temps are, because they'll never get high enough to matter. Before they ever do, your turbo will cast her withers because the exhaust gases will need to just about melt that thing before intake temps start to matter.

As far as engine coolant temps, again, as a great philosopher once said....."SO?"

I mean at 220, that's nothing, even 250 isn't a big deal if there's a real reason, like you're working the engine hard like pulling a load up hill, and once that heavy load is reduced, the temps come down.

Cooling systems have pressure caps, and most are 15 PSI. What that means is as your coolant gets hot, HEAT cause coolant to expand, and HEAT is what builds up the pressure, not a water pump. The coolant, as it gets hot, it wants to boil, but it can no longer boil at 212 like normal, because of your pressure cap.

For every POUND of pressure in your cap, you RAISE the boiling point by THREE DEGREES. So, with a 15-pound cap, you've raised the boiling point another 45 degrees, so your new boiling point goes from 212 to 257 degrees.

If your engines coolant goes beyond that point, the cap releases the excess pressure and coolant flows into your overflow tank, and not on the ground where you lose it. Once the engine cools, and the coolant returns to its normal state of volume from where it had expanded from when hot, the coolant is sucked back into the radiator and cooling system because the shrinking coolant creates a vacuum in the system and the vacuum valve in your radiator cap opens and lets coolant flow back into the cooling system from the overflow tank.

This is why you NEVER remove a hot radiator cap. When you do that, you instantly lower the boiling point back down to 212, and it boils out everywhere and you lose it....along with some skin more than likely, but still, your engine doesn't care about 250 or 300 degrees...it just doesn't. I mean that cast iron, and modern fluids and gaskets, it's not a big deal. I mean I wouldn't make a habit of it, because it is reducing the life of fluids to some degree, and reduced fluid life, can mean reduced engine life if let go too long, but for pulling loads up hills....no biggie. She's doing what she was designed to do. When you work, you get hot, when your Roxor works, she gets warmer, and neither of you will die from working hard and getting warmed up....well your Roxor won't anyway.

I hope this helps.

Great points! Thanks!
BTW , I just did the EGR delete. Made 2 blockoff plates from 3/8” steel and needed a piece of heater hose to compensate for the absence of the EGR unit. Just left the electrical connector hanging and didn’t get any “check engine” light. Another thing I did was to disconnect that air intake heater grid thingy. I’m in ARIZONA! If I understand it correctly, that heater is only needed for cold starts. The coldest temperature I would ever run into would be on an early December elk hunt in the big piney woods. Very rare occasion , since elk tags are SO hard to get.. Again, no “check engine” light. Don’t tell anybody, but I deleted the catalytic converter, too!
Anybody else get rid of the air intake grid heater thingy?

 

[txroadkill]

I don’t think you’ll find anyone removing the heater grid. It’s not really a restriction and helps aid in cold/cool starts. I bet you’ll find your Roxor smokes more and idles rough when you do start it on cool mornings now. Keep us posted on how is does in those cooler temps.

 

[1BB]

Great points! Thanks!
BTW , I just did the EGR delete. Made 2 blockoff plates from 3/8” steel and needed a piece of heater hose to compensate for the absence of the EGR unit. Just left the electrical connector hanging and didn’t get any “check engine” light. Another thing I did was to disconnect that air intake heater grid thingy. I’m in ARIZONA! If I understand it correctly, that heater is only needed for cold starts. The coldest temperature I would ever run into would be on an early December elk hunt in the big piney woods. Very rare occasion , since elk tags are SO hard to get.. Again, no “check engine” light. Don’t tell anybody, but I deleted the catalytic converter, too!
Anybody else get rid of the air intake grid heater thingy?

txroadkill is 100% correct. Cold starting does not mean cold weather necessarily, but more of a cold engine or an engine that is not at operating temperature. That is what cold start means.

I would hook that back up right away.

You want to get that engine up to operating temps as fast as possible and if at all possible, do not put the engine under a load until it reaches that operating temperature. I like to let a gasoline engine run about two minutes, even in the summer, before moving the vehicle, and longer in colder weather, especially for automatic transmissions too. They do not get warmed up until the coolant in the engine is warm, and the transmission "COOLER" in your radiator is what actually starts bringing your trans fluid up to operating temps, so it becomes a trans heater in the winter months.

Years ago, when I was a mechanic, I was at one of the Ford schools, and I remember one of the instructors saying that around 90% of all engine wear, and pollution happens on a cold engine, so getting an engine up to operating temp as fast as possible, is the goal.

When you put a cold engine under a load, the aluminum pistons tend to expand faster than the cast iron cylinders that are surrounded by cold coolant. They have found that when this happens, microscopic scoring starts to happen, and the engine starts to burn oil much sooner than it should, because you're wearing it out.

You ever wonder why truckers sleep in their trucks with the engines running, because shutting them down and allowing the engine to cool, creates much more wear on the engine at start up, than just letting it idle all night long.

The EGR valve, is another cold start up thing too, but a bad one. EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recovery, and what it did, was to reroute a small amount of hot exhaust gases back into the engines combustion chamber to help warm up the engine faster. A temp sensor in the engine's block or air cleaner, would regulate vacuum to the EGR valve. A cold engine means more vacuum and the valve would open more to allow more hot exhaust gases back into the engine to warm it up faster.

It was also supposed to help reduce pollution by lowering combustion temps by reducing the amount of air in the combustion chamber and thus lowering nitrogen oxides which causes smog and acid rain. It did this at idle, because idling is where more pollution is created than when running at higher RPM, and at idle, you can lean out the air fuel mixture greatly because you don't need any power to idle.

Did it work, well at that school they showed us one working and one that wasn't, and a meter doesn't lie, it worked when BRAND new. I think it was another one of those FLEET mileage/emission things, that when brand new, lowered emissions and helped meet the gooberment standards, but caused trouble for the owner down the road.

The problem with these, is the exhaust gases would rust and corrode or build up sludge in the EGR valve and it would stick open when vacuum was applied, but spring pressure never could close it again, and now your engine runs like crap. When brand new, they did work, but put 30k miles of stop and go city driving on the engine, and maybe not so much anymore.

As with any of these types of things ,..... There's "THEORY" and then there's real life PRACTICE, and real-life practice always cancels out theory.

 

[Mr. T]

Does anyone fabricated / manufacture a aftermarket Radiator bolt in with more cooler tubes?

 

[Maz1222]

See previous answer.