Mechanical Pump Swap

[jrobz23]

I've heard through a grapevine that Mahindra didn't change the pump mount boss, gear, or flange from the old rotary pumps to the new HP CR pump. I have a VE pump in my garage from another application. I'm gonna eye/measure some stuff up. A fully mechanical setup has significant advantages, not the least of which is full removal of the speed limiter and complete access to full tunability.

 

[jrobz23]

Nobody? It seems to me a mechanical pump swap would correct the few woes this vehicle has.

The tuning "products" out right now don't seem to be in line with products for other makes.

 

[tben87]

I think this will be one of those things that happen once things break or cause issues. As far as the injection system goes its about as bulletproof as it can get with electronics. Time will tell.

 

[jrobz23]

True, but there is a definite ceiling I would pay for any mods/repairs to the CR system. That ceiling is like half teh cost of a pump swap lol

 

[Ben]

Nobody? It seems to me a mechanical pump swap would correct the few woes this vehicle has.

The tuning "products" out right now don't seem to be in line with products for other makes.

This common rail uses 23K PSI of pressure ! No mechanical pump will drive the stock injectors ever !

 

[Campyman]

I'd rather have have a mechanical pump. They're cheaper and easier to replace. However I'm not going down this road. Sorry

 

[jrobz23]

This common rail uses 23K PSI of pressure ! No mechanical pump will drive the stock injectors ever !

Not stock injectors. They need to swapped to low pressure pop injectors along with the pump.

 

[Campyman]

Not stock injectors. They need to swapped to low pressure pop injectors along with the pump.

I knew this too which is why I said earlier I'm not going down this road. I'd rather just swap the electric pump out every 100,000 miles before it breaks. That's a better and much cheaper way to go.

 

[tben87]

As time as gone on, these newer electronic pumps are not as expensive as they once were when they came out 20 yrs ago. Even the pump on my colorado diesel is only 500 bucks brand new from the dealer. Considering the thar has been around for awhile running this setup it might even be cheaper to replace the electronic one now as opposed to the mechanical one. All mechanical is cool and has its advantages but I think it isn't feasible now. The electronic ones last awhile now.

 

[jrobz23]

The mechcanical pump is only a means to not run the computer controlled injectors. We'll see how expensive they are 100k miles from now, but if they are more than $250 each, then mechanical pump swap it is.

 

[Cody strickland]

Anybody having problems with fuel pump whining extremely loud?

 

[jrobz23]

the in tank pump gets whiny when it's cold out

 

[MAGAHAWK]

I knew this too which is why I said earlier I'm not going down this road. I'd rather just swap the electric pump out every 100,000 miles before it breaks. That's a better and much cheaper way to go.

Sell your Roxor yet? Haven't seen it advertised on ebay. Whats your current asking price?

 

[jrobz23]

Ok, well the word on the street was VERY slightly wrong. I finally got a 3 bolt Bosch 4BT pump on the stand to test fit AND a 2.5L Roxor injection pump gasket...

WELL it's VERY slightly off (Roxor pump bolt circle is about 1/2" larger). The 4BT pump will not perfectly swap in place of the Roxor pump. BUT.. I bet a thin round adapter ring will work well with studs welded on both sides. The gear part # matches the same tractor part # used on many models with the same style pump: 0305BB0790N

Customer adapter ring I'm looking into and a set of cheap 4BT pop injectors, bend up some lines and we're prolly in business.

 

[jrobz23]

My ideas for the "Stage 5" tune lol

I wonder if we could use a set of lines from a MM 5035 tractor.. I bet they'd line up so close they'd be usable OoB.

 

[Metricquartz]

This is a excellent idea, I would be willing to make my Roxor non electronic.

 

[Richard211]

There are a few different types of engine blocks mahindra has, majority of the changes are on the timing side of the engine. If the fuel injection pump mounts to a casting that's part of the engine block I would suggest looking at the mechanical fuel injection pump, high pressure lines and fuel injectors off the Mahindra Bolero BS3 engine. That's the closest it would get to a plug and play conversion, the rev limiter and horsepower ratings are similar to common rail engine ratings. I doubt the 4bt injectors would work since they are much shorter in length compared to the mahindra common rail fuel injector and also the injectors are mounted differently.

 

[jrobz23]

The Thar DI actually seems like a pretty bang-on option IF the block casting is the same and there's an OEM adapter.. I bet it's slightly different to use the different pump.

Do you have a site you know of where we can see a parts diagram for a DI like we can for the US tractors and Roxors?

 

[Richard211]

This is the link for the Thar MDI TC with the rotary mechanical fuel injection pump.

https://oriparts.com/4/43/108/24691

Another possible alternative source for an inline mechanical fuel injection pump is from the mahindra MDI tractors, the governor is set around 2300 rpm but that can be changed. The Roxor MDI engine is derived from the International B275 tractor with the BD 144 / BD154 engine. Mahindra converted it to direct injection, lowered the compression ratio and added the turbocharger. On the mahindra tractors the engine block design is basically the same as the BD 144/155 and while the fuel injection mounting is cast into the block on the Roxor engines, the mahindra MDI tractors has a mounting plate that forms the back half of the timing chest, this allows a lot more flexibility when it comes to choosing Fuel Injection pumps or adding a hydraulic pump. The engine blocks, cylinder heads, engine internals are all interchangeable across the MDI and the common rail MDI engines. Mahindra also has a 3 liter version of the 2.5 / 2.7 MDI engines but that's mostly used for a generator application.

 

[jrobz23]

Thanks for the link!

Yeah looks like the DI block does not have an adapter and is just a slightly different casting in that area to mount the VE style pump. I'm honestly pretty surprised MM didn't just use an adapter for the CRD pump and keep the automotive style castings the same.

There's going to be a ton of little stuff that the Roxor community will want from the 1st gen Thar DI though, so having a good pipeline of parts -> USA will be super useful.