Stage 2 Diesel Freaks

[Cshama]

I've decided to go with diesel freaks for my upgrade.

I'll be using the car 100% for street use. The price of stage 1 and stage 2 is almost identical. The question is does it make sense to directly go to stage 2. I appreciate I may need a clutch upgrade down the road. But is Stage 2 pushing the Roxor too hard in terms of the effect on reliability.

 

[DAMCars]

I will probably go Stage 2 also but curious how far off Stage 3 is from hitting the market. They posted a YouTube video of Stage 3 throwing flames. It sounded mean.

 

[jrobz23]

Any update from you guys? I'm interested in Diesel Freak Stage 2 as my Roxor falls on it's face at 55-60.

I currently have Vivid Stage 1

 

[Bhayarock]

Just my 2 cents.. based on the design of the engine.
I dont know what these stages mean you might as well as go to stage 10 tune if I ever know what they mean but I beleive if you go over 120 HP..you are seriously going to compromise the longevity.
I know you can add bigger turbos, intercooler, better cooling shrouds or may be stronger head gaskets and seals but these engines are rated at 63 HP going more than 2X is never advisable.
These engines are low RPM motors with cast iron block..that means if you go over a certain limit..maintaining optimal engine temperature will start to become a problem, along with excessive wear to shafts and cylinders.
If you wanna race with someone sure get a 200hp tune but no tuner will ever do an engine overhaul for you once you bust it.
Or better why not get a bigger and quicker motor altogether?

 

[jrobz23]

At face value altering the stock tune is never "advisable", but it sure does make the vehicle more generally usable. I knew going in I wasn't going to have it fully DD ready prior to the warranty running out, so I didn't much care. FWIW, the Diesel Freak Stage 2 is 115HP and 252 ft-lbs of TQ, which sounds an awful lot like a reasonable tune from 2.5L of engine.

After actually driving the Vivid Stage 1 tune ~80HP - it hits a wall at 55-60 MPH. And by wall I mean wall. At 60 mash the throttle all you want, it's not going any faster. Also if you encounter a hill (WI hill so we're not talking mountain here..), you'll be going 50 by the end of it.

Mini rant: The automotive/gearhead/tuner/after market is used to OEMs doing a screw job on vehicles and out-right purposefully gimping them. This can be for many reasons, almost all having NOTHING to do with mechanical engine state or longevity or performance. As such, anyone that had been around cars for a while understands you actually need to alter your vehicle to have it last longer and run better. The Roxor is no different. Running De-tuned to stay under power ratings for legislative reasons has nothing to do with longevity. In fact, lugging your engine will hurt longevity. Also if longevity was a goal, a CAT and EGR would never have been added to the vehicle, but both are for truly asinine reasons (counter-productive even to their stated goal). Tunes can allow for their removal, both adding to engine life.

I'm not looking for a race car, but I do think 70MPH in a 96" WB vehicle can be had safely and realibly with an undersquare 2.5L turbo diesel and the Roxor gearing. The Vivid Stage 1 tune doesn't make that happen, so I'm looking at competitors, and what real first hand experience people have with them.

 

[Bhayarock]

At face value altering the stock tune is never "advisable", but it sure does make the vehicle more generally usable. I knew going in I wasn't going to have it fully DD ready prior to the warranty running out, so I didn't much care. FWIW, the Diesel Freak Stage 2 is 115HP and 252 ft-lbs of TQ, which sounds an awful lot like a reasonable tune from 2.5L of engine.

After actually driving the Vivid Stage 1 tune ~80HP - it hits a wall at 55-60 MPH. And by wall I mean wall. At 60 mash the throttle all you want, it's not going any faster. Also if you encounter a hill (WI hill so we're not talking mountain here..), you'll be going 50 by the end of it.

Mini rant: The automotive/gearhead/tuner/after market is used to OEMs doing a screw job on vehicles and out-right purposefully gimping them. This can be for many reasons, almost all having NOTHING to do with mechanical engine state or longevity or performance. As such, anyone that had been around cars for a while understands you actually need to alter your vehicle to have it last longer and run better. The Roxor is no different. Running De-tuned to stay under power ratings for legislative reasons has nothing to do with longevity. In fact, lugging your engine will hurt longevity. Also if longevity was a goal, a CAT and EGR would never have been added to the vehicle, but both are for truly asinine reasons (counter-productive even to their stated goal). Tunes can allow for their removal, both adding to engine life.

I'm not looking for a race car, but I do think 70MPH in a 96" WB vehicle can be had safely and realibly with an undersquare 2.5L turbo diesel and the Roxor gearing. The Vivid Stage 1 tune doesn't make that happen, so I'm looking at competitors, and what real first hand experience people have with them.

Again as I mentioned... there is a sweet spot for tunes.. and I would say that would be 75 to 120 hp range but no more than that.

1) under rated - I agree not good this is how roxor comes in stock.
2) optimally tuned may be 75 -120 HP with egr delete.
3) running the redlines 120 HP+ achievable but your engine will always be at a stress and working on the threshholds and this was my point with respect to exhausts becoming flamethrowers and may be not worth the money for mods and longevity.

 

[jrobz23]

Again as I mentioned... there is a sweet spot for tunes.. and I would say that would be 75 to 120 hp range but no more than that.

1) under rated - I agree not good this is how roxor comes in stock.
2) optimally tuned may be 75 -120 HP with egr delete.
3) running the redlines 120 HP+ achievable but your engine will always be at a stress and working on the threshholds and this was my point with respect to exhausts becoming flamethrowers and may be not worth the money for mods and longevity.

Ahh gotcha, that makes more sense and I 100% agree. Yeah, I'm not a moron that wants to kill his motor/clutch/Roxor putting on a show at stop lights. I have useful things I need to do with my time lol. I do tend to lightly modify my vehicles for the goals I stated. Increased reliability, increased utility, and reduction of cost of ownership are primary goals in my mods. I rarely go for pure flare, so my decals are definitely a oddity for me, but I love em lol. I always wanted a 1979 Trans Am, and I love/need small 4x4s, so a "Golden Eagle" Roxor is a dream rig for me.

I do know that a 97 TJ with 3.07 gearing and a similar 5-speed will do 70 MPH with ~240 FT LB of TQ, so I fully expect the DF Stage 2 tune to deliver if teh #s are the real #s. I just want someone with real world experience to chime in.

 

[sandyx]

FWIW, some real world info on the stage2 tune I gathered for somewhere else.

The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

www.team-bhp.com

 

[jrobz23]

That Diesel Freak speed test makes me definitely optimistic.

 

[jrobz23]

That new Thar is yuck lol

It's funny in that thread, how they want our JKs and we want their Classics lol

 

[doschewy]

My Roxor (2022) runs way smoother with Stage 2. Plus I sent the ECM out on a Monday morning get an email from Wade at DF and had it Tuesday Afternoon

 

[MikeT]

After actually driving the Vivid Stage 1 tune ~80HP - it hits a wall at 55-60 MPH. And by wall I mean wall. At 60 mash the throttle all you want, it's not going any faster. Also if you encounter a hill (WI hill so we're not talking mountain here..), you'll be going 50 by the end of it.

hmm. My Vivid stage is is 90 hp and no problem getting above 70, and i am in a hilly area. It has more speed available but i am not confortable going much faster. I have the original gearing though.

 

[TomRox]

Stage 2, don’t look back
the clutch life is in part driving style, maybe carry a budget for the clutch
you can get a power adjustment knob from diesel freak if you want and try different levels

 

[G.Tallant]

At face value altering the stock tune is never "advisable", but it sure does make the vehicle more generally usable. I knew going in I wasn't going to have it fully DD ready prior to the warranty running out, so I didn't much care. FWIW, the Diesel Freak Stage 2 is 115HP and 252 ft-lbs of TQ, which sounds an awful lot like a reasonable tune from 2.5L of engine.

After actually driving the Vivid Stage 1 tune ~80HP - it hits a wall at 55-60 MPH. And by wall I mean wall. At 60 mash the throttle all you want, it's not going any faster. Also if you encounter a hill (WI hill so we're not talking mountain here..), you'll be going 50 by the end of it.

Mini rant: The automotive/gearhead/tuner/after market is used to OEMs doing a screw job on vehicles and out-right purposefully gimping them. This can be for many reasons, almost all having NOTHING to do with mechanical engine state or longevity or performance. As such, anyone that had been around cars for a while understands you actually need to alter your vehicle to have it last longer and run better. The Roxor is no different. Running De-tuned to stay under power ratings for legislative reasons has nothing to do with longevity. In fact, lugging your engine will hurt longevity. Also if longevity was a goal, a CAT and EGR would never have been added to the vehicle, but both are for truly asinine reasons (counter-productive even to their stated goal). Tunes can allow for their removal, both adding to engine life.

I'm not looking for a race car, but I do think 70MPH in a 96" WB vehicle can be had safely and realibly with an undersquare 2.5L turbo diesel and the Roxor gearing. The Vivid Stage 1 tune doesn't make that happen, so I'm looking at competitors, and what real first hand experience people have with them.

I used these people for my Stg2 tune. $300. My son used DF $600. We can’t tell the difference in the performance of the 2 roxors we have.

 

[Wm435]

My Roxor (2022) runs way smoother with Stage 2. Plus I sent the ECM out on a Monday morning get an email from Wade at DF and had it Tuesday Afternoon

If you ever want a little more juice from your roxor you can always ask for a custom 2.7 DF tune......ive been running a stage 2 for 15.5k miles no issues on the motor or clutch. I know have a 2.7DF custom tune currently have about 3k miles on it. Still no issues.....if you run more power past the stage 2 you must do the recommended mods Wade will tell you to do

 

[DDP70]

If you ever want a little more juice from your roxor you can always ask for a custom 2.7 DF tune......ive been running a stage 2 for 15.5k miles no issues on the motor or clutch. I know have a 2.7DF custom tune currently have about 3k miles on it. Still no issues.....if you run more power past the stage 2 you must do the recommended mods Wade will tell you to do

Guessing that includes an intercooler system as well as a larger turbo and exhaust?

 

[Wm435]

Guessing that includes an intercooler system as well as a larger turbo and exhaust?

Larger tubo, and intercooler for sure. The exhaust can stay as is, if you don't want to go that route. But highly encourage a high flow air intake instead of the factory air box set up. I heard they aren't holding to well with the extra power running through the 2nd stage tune from DF.

 

[Lebers driven]

I’m glad to see that the hard parts around the engine are finally being discussed. If you just try to run big tunes with no hard part upgrades, I personally don’t think you are setting yourself up for success. You will still gain power, but I ran the diesel freak stage one tune with all the factory parts, then put the upgraded turbo and intercooler kit on And it was a whole other beast even without changing the tune again. I also removed the EGR but just for the record I think that hardly does anything to power. If you think of air and fuel that goes into the engine, simply as mass, and you understand that a turbo charger can only flow so much mass or exhaust then if you increase the fueling, without putting a bigger turbo on to flow the extra mass out of the engine, efficiently, then The exhaust will start building up and creating more back pressure on the engine, reducing power and increasing heat. A turbo rated for 62 hp at the factory will not have enough top end to efficiently support a stage two tune in my opinion. You can run it and you can add the boost increase valve but then you are over speeding, the turbo, bringing it out of its efficiency range. If you want more power Put a properly sized turbo on for it to keep your motor happy.

 

[jrobz23]

Just an update from my quoted post. The DF intake hold down fixed my power issue. I can cruise at 70 now. I also went to 32" skinnies (Willys 7.50-16s) and that fixed my speedo too (at <= 60). I'm gonna delete my CAT some time this summer but not in a super big hurry. EGR deleted already. I love this thing.

At some point I might go with the DF2 tune or just yank all the CRD crap and run a mechanical pump and pop injectors. For now, it does just fine.